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  1. #1 Dalsa Origin Footage 
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    I've seen all this footage from RED, but I've yet to see any dalsa footage anywhere. I'm curious as to wether anyone has any 4k dalsa origin footage that I could look at?
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  2. #2  
    Have seen footage at trade shows but none on the web. They do have 4K frame grabs on their website at: http://www.dalsa.com/dc/4K_gallery/4K_gallery.asp
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSi's Avatar
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    I have seen several clips and even a short of the Dalsa Origin, all in 4k.

    The most impressive one was at Cinegear, the colors and rez was impressive.

    I can't make a direct comparison with the RED footage for several reasons,

    A) Dalsa footage was projected on a 12' screen from about 16' away, so obviously the image is crispier then if projected from 50' away on a 30' screen.

    B) The subjects filmed on each camera were not the same.

    I do like the Dalsa images, but nnot any better then I like RED's.

    It will be hard for you to see 4k footage of the Dalsa as they obviously do nnot have an open policy like RED and do have much consideration and wary about people making wrong assumption by wiewing the images in less then ideal sources.

    This arte not statement coming from none of the cameras manufacturers above but my amble opinion of the two after having seen footage from both.

    Ciao,

    KETCH ROSSI
    www.KETCHFRAME.com
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Charles Angus's Avatar
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    Looks nice for web footage - not saying much, but well shot and graded; even if the outdoor space-ey stuff looks a little "lit".
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    I have seen several clips and even a short of the Dalsa Origin, all in 4k.

    The most impressive one was at Cinegear, the colors and rez was impressive.
    Thanks. And we were only playing back HD! That set-up was far from ideal, with a lower-end projector and screen combination. But at least the material was totally silent, had no quick cuts, and no-color correction so you could have some understanding of exactly what was going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    It will be hard for you to see 4k footage of the Dalsa as they obviously do nnot have an open policy like RED and do have much consideration and wary about people making wrong assumption by wiewing the images in less then ideal sources.
    Ketch, with all due respect, you're expressing an opinion. The reality is far different.

    Just because we don't post much footage on-line, doesn't mean DALSA isn't open to showing off our stuff. Besides the usual trade events, I personally host screenings in our theater several times a week. I also regularly send material or arrange screenings for clients around the world. Unfortunately, many of those screenings are not ideal situations.

    It's not hyperbole when I say that the Origin II makes the best images of any digital cinema camera. It has more dynamic range and more apparent resolution than any other digital cinema camera in the known universe. Believe me- we want people to see it!

    What's even more helpful than seeing demo footage, is for DPs to shoot their own test- either alone or against other known formats to have a direct comparison. A professional DP will test exactly what they want, and when viewing the results they know the exact shooting conditions. DALSA has the most liberal testing policy of any manufacturer that I'm aware of, which keeps me very busy, and that's a good thing.

    On a side but related note, I've overheard people (at tradeshows in particular) raving or proclaiming "best" after seeing one flashy showreel or another with slick/stylized color-corrected images, special fx, quick cuts, and a very loud soundtrack, all with zero point of reference. That kind of material definitely has its place, and I think it's useful to generate general interest. Unfortunately, there's a level of person out there who doesn't realize that all that cutting and VFX also helps disguise actual camera performance, and it may even mask genuine acquisition problems that had to be painstakingly corrected in post for that flashy reel. The reel might be entertaining, but you don't always learn much. I happened to meet one of those young 'proclaimers' right after one of those flashy screenings last week. He was talking like he knew it all, right in front of an extremely knowledgeable (although rather quiet) DP who silently smirked. He never realized how much he embarrassed himself.


    I.

    Illya Friedman
    DALSA
    Digital Cinema Division
    www.dalsa.com/dc
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSi's Avatar
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    Illya, the comments and post I do are my opinions on each subject of which I write, at times they have hard facts other times they have results of personal research, as this is the case for Dalsa, it was my personal experience that Dalsa footage was very hard to come by.

    I in deed was impressed by the quality of the images I view at Cinegear, and sure I also noticed that the projector was not what I would have expected to see going in to the tent were the screening toucked place, also I made an observation to a fellow Cinegear attendee that I had a better screen at home then the one were the images of the Dalsa II were projected.

    Nonetheless I was very pleased with the images.

    I'm surely not the quite type, but I do not pretend to know it all (like the guy you speak of) on the contrary most of the times I tend to tell people that I know a bit about everything and nothing about anything.

    But I do love Cinematography as well as Photography and I'm most passionate about the entire process, I try to stay away from the extremely technical matters and concentrate more on the way I can get the results I want.

    I write my own materials and as a Director I also play with light on my own way, as I do in photography to get the fill and image final output that tells my stories the way I wanted them to be told.

    The Dalsa images I view impressed me for the Organic fill that I found on them, the colors were separated nicely leaving the backgrounds as vivid as the foreground, yet isolating the subjects in a 3D look that give a pleasing experience to the eye, I said that I'm a passionate storyteller and colors, separation of colors, depth of field accentuated by not only focus but resolution of the images, are all important to the scene to make the viewer pay attention to what matters, and it was nice to be transported by does images.

    When I say that I did not like the Dalsa images any better then RED's, I also said that a direct comparison could not be made unless the same scene was shot with both cameras at the same time, this means same lighting set up, same lenses etc.

    Obviously at the end of the day what counts the most to each Film project is its workflow chosen for the final look and all the aspects of Cinematography, first of all "Budget". It is budget that has kept many (like my self) away form their "Dreams" of telling a story, and if you have done nothing before, it is extremely hard for you to do anything at all, what a close circle that is, Jim and its RED team have broken that barrier for many as it will be for me as soon as I take delivery of my cameras and be able to start shooting my projects getting the quality I want with out the unreachable cost of renting a Dalsa package, as today, I would only considered the Dalsa if RED was not here.

    But then again who knows when I would have got a chance to shoot with a budjet such as that required by a DAlsa package, I'm a Writer/Director and an incredibly passionate Storyteller, but again as I have done nothing in this Industry yet would have been almost impossible for me to make my dreams come to reality, and this is were RED steps in giving a tool of unprecedented criterias for a very affordable price.

    Given the fantastic image quality, the cost of production, the incredible ease of Post, the size, and most importantly, the way Mr. Jannard has not only provided the perfect tool for many of us, but the way He has and is going about it, that made my decision a no brainer, RED is the only way to go for me, I didn't mentioned the absurd low price of the camera as Dalsa it is not for sale so it would be an unfare comparisson, but rental of a RED package would nonetheless still be way below that of the Dalsa.

    At last when I compare products such as cameras, lenses and any gear that provides different quality, I do not only look and research to find the absolute best, I look to find what pleases me and is suited for my projects.

    My experience at this time may not say much about me but I know what I see and what I want, and it is based on this values that I make my choices and give my amble opinions.

    At last I know that Dalsa as well as many other cameras will continue to find their market and users as will RED, and I for one will not compare film vs. digital or Dalsa vs. RED, I will only review them to find which one is best suited for me as I have already done.

    I hope not of my opinions have offended you, your company or your products, I speak my mind with no reflections, I'm Strong opinionated Passionate Italian, but I never mean to fail to respect any one, and as far as shooting with Dalsa never ssay never, but RED right now looks very good to me and can't count the days till I get them and start shooting with it.

    Ciao,

    KETCH ROSSI
    www.KETCHFRAME.com
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Stacey Spears's Avatar
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    The Trident short was part of the JVC 4k demo at CEDIA this past September in Denver.

    The most detailed portion were the close-ups of David Carradine.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Rudi Herbert's Avatar
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    Question for Ilya,

    I've only seen screen grabs from the Dalsa, but it appears to be a serious tool capable of creating amazing images. I agree with Signore Rossi on everything he said though, RED has opened an immense array of possibilities for many of us that will remain unattainable with Dalsa or even the Sony HD cams. Like Ketch, I am a lover of photography in its many forms and spend a lot of my time shooting video and still cameras, playing with light, experimenting with the possibilities that each particular camera gives me. In that sense, a RED would be a camera that I could shoot with EVERY day, without having to rent or mortgage my house to buy it, allowing me to improve my craft exponentially, much as I've done with my SLR's, DSLR's, DV and HDV cameras. That will be a deciding factor for many of us, even those not financially limited, because after all, you can't just rent a DALSA everyday...

    However, accepting that the DALSA produces the best digital images nowadays, is there a way you think you could produce a 4 K camera of the same dimensions and comparable price to RED, or the DALSA magic can only be achieved through large and expensive components? Could there ever be a DALSA "Junior"?
    Rudi Herbert

    www.UnderwaterCinema.com

    A site about the equipment and techniques of the art of underwater cinematography
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi Herbert View Post
    Could there ever be a DALSA "Junior"?
    Isn't that a little of what the RED is, the smaller and cheaper 4K camera?

    I think the Dalsa gets some of its particular quality from capturing & recording 16-bit uncompressed 4K Bayer data, which is perhaps unwieldly and impractical for the independent filmmaking crowd that that the RED is aimed at. There is a practical reason for the specs (12-bit wavelet compressed 4K Bayer data) that the RED team are working with.
    David Mullen, ASC
    Los Angeles
    http://www.davidmullenasc.com
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  10.   This is the last RED TEAM post in this thread.   #10  
    I was under the impression it was 14bit with two bits of padding?

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 6k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    FLUT™, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms, REDRAY 4K delivery
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