Detachable Zoom or Alternative?

[Jonesy Jones]

So, with all the wild speculations of the upcoming Scarlet release, personally, I just don't think we're going to see anything tremendously different from what we've already seen. Sure I'd love to see a bigger chip or more res, but for all the logical and obvious reasons that have already been posted, I don't think it's going to happen. The biggest change that I foresee is price.

The one speculation, however, that I'd love to see and some have already suggested is that the two known Scarlets have become one, making the fixed lens detachable. To me this would be an obvious "change" based on Red's philosophies.

1) A fixed lens seems like it could/would become obsolete. Not that I don't want one, that's actually the one that I'm eyeing, but wouldn't it have a much longer future if you could take that amazing zoom off and throw on a mini prime? 2) It seems more like Red to have one modular Scarlet than two distinctly separate Scarlets. Sure, I may have purchased the zoom package and you the mini prime package, but we swap lenses and accessories and configure our cameras a million trillion different ways like originally planned. 3) It makes more economic sense. If I buy a fixed lens Scarlet, aside from an accessory or two, I'm pretty much done. But if I can remove the lens, I'm also in the market for some mini primes. 4) A fixed lens doesn't seem as or very professional. Considering Red's quest to make only professional products, a fixed lens seems more akin to the soccer mom camera we heard about a couple years ago than the camera for the working professional. Again, not that I'm complaining, but here's to hoping for a detachable zoom.

Would some folks please advise as to why they think this could or could not happen?

Lastly, let's assume it doesn't happen and we still have two Scarlets, which is what I'm going to assume for now (or that they've postponed the fixed lens because of production issues). If one were to go with the interchangeable lens version, is there a zoom lens out there similar to the one on the fixed Scarlet?

Thanks.

[Carey Lee Coffey]

I think there will be one Scarlet with a removable lens as well. You will be able to by the brain alone or a kit with a zoom or a kit with mini primes or a kit with both zoom and primes.

[Solomon Nero]

I think there will be one Scarlet with a removable lens as well. You will be able to by the brain alone or a kit with a zoom or a kit with mini primes or a kit with both zoom and primes.

I would like that...with the controls of the fixed lens...but interchangeable...that would be awesome. We will see what comes out. Either way...I do not think they will disappoint...quite the opposite....this is gunna be awesome!

[Clint Lealos]

I'm thinking what your thinking Jonesy :)

[Leo Sardello]

While I share your sentiments and I think many people would prefer the most versatile of options possible, it's been my understanding that the lens of the Fixed Scarlet is deeply integrated into the camera itself. I also believe, if memory serves, that this integration will allow some features that may not be possible with removable lenses, though that might have all been speculative. The point is, if that's the case, while you might find a good zoom for the interchangeable model, it may not support all the features of the one on the Fixed. Attached is a great picture that shows what I mean by "deeply integrated".

Along with this, they have stated emphatically in the past that they were not working on a mini-zoom of any kind to accompany the mini-primes. Sorry I don't have links to that right now, but I remember it being said in several places. *EDIT* oops the latest I found wasn't quit as emphatic as I remember:

Joseph hit me with another 10 Scarlet questions this week.. Thought I would share.


(7) Are there plans for a RED Mini Zoom lens with full manual capabilities (iris ring, zoom ring, focus ring) to complement the RED Mini Primes? I realize the 8X Electronic Zoom on the F-Scarlet doesn't come off and a version of that cannot be offered for the C-Scarlet. This is not what I am asking for.

A full manual zoom lens will not be released at launch.

Now sure, all things subject to change and all but given that we've seen the Fixed floating about both at NAB and in Joseph's hands just a few months ago, all this leaves me inclined to believe that we are still looking at different Scarlet models, the Fixed lens being one of them and no RED mini-zoom for the Cinema Scarlet *EDIT* (At least at launch)*.. but I would love for that to have been one of the things subjected to change.

[Steve Wake]

Well stated, Jonesy. Out of all the more "wishful" possibilities for Scarlet this would rank high on my list too, definitely above a larger or higher resolution sensor.

As far as the integrated sensor/lens design, I could see it having minuses, too. Does the integrated design make repair/adjustment of the lens portion more costly, cost-prohibitive, or even impossible? I've argued elsewhere that the lens is an extremely complex optic to make perform at cinematic levels while still meeting the price point. For the price, it has an extremely high resolution spec (100 lp/mm in the center), and to be cinema-quality would need to stay near that spec in the corners and have minimal CA. Not easy. If adjustments during assembly and in the course of normal use are necessary the integrated design could be a problem. All speculation here.

Maybe the Fixed zoom would come complete with integrated mounting plate, rather than with a PL mount, saving on that expense and minimizing problems in redesigning the housing? And hopefully RED would figure out a way to keep the built-in ND's.

[Jeffrey Loewe]

While I share your sentiments and I think many people would prefer the most versatile of options possible, it's been my understanding that the lens of the Fixed Scarlet is deeply integrated into the camera itself. I also believe, if memory serves, that this integration will allow some features that may not be possible with removable lenses, though that might have all been speculative. The point is, if that's the case, while you might find a good zoom for the interchangeable model, it may not support all the features of the one on the Fixed. Attached is a great picture that shows what I mean by "deeply integrated".

Along with this, they have stated emphatically in the past that they were not working on a mini-zoom of any kind to accompany the mini-primes. Sorry I don't have links to that right now, but I remember it being said in several places. *EDIT* oops the latest I found wasn't quit as emphatic as I remember:





Now sure, all things subject to change and all but given that we've seen the Fixed floating about both at NAB and in Joseph's hands just a few months ago, all this leaves me inclined to believe that we are still looking at different Scarlet models, the Fixed lens being one of them and no RED mini-zoom for the Cinema Scarlet *EDIT* (At least at launch)*.. but I would love for that to have been one of the things subjected to change.

I tend to agree with you Leo, I'm expecting the Fixed to still be built in the camera. But on thing that is interesting, they had been working on electronic lenses, and maybe with what they learned from the Electronic lens control used in the Canon DSMC mount they were able to adapt to a mini-pl mount? Just a thought. Not trying to fuel speculation, just saying it could've been something that came about.

[Steven Hammer]

This is my number one wish for the "changes" that they said have occurred to Scarlet. Although, bumping up the resolution would be awesome, too, for stills purposes for me.

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Problem is, the detachable zoom may double the price of the Scarlet. Jim Jannard has gone on record saying the lens was probably worth more than the camera. Unless Red has figured out a way to reduce costs with respect to the brain, I can easily see $10-12K for a Scarlet and detachable 8X zoom.

[Jonesy Jones]

I agree that we're probably still going to see the same two Scarlets that we thought we'd see. What's strange is that even though all logic tells us that, it seems like Jim went out of his way to suggest there have been some big "changes" to the "new" Scarlet. I have a bad feeling the only real change will be the price. But still looking forward to Nov 3rd and to Scarlet.