To wait or not to wait...MacPro Thunderbolt vs. Macbook Pro Thunderbolt

[Cameron Dunlop]

I am starting to lose it waiting to buy a new MAC for home. I am hoping that Scarlet is going to be in my price range and I want to have a home computer that I will be able to effectively edit Red footage on. I waited all summer for a new Sandy Bridge/Thunderbolt MacPro to emerge and nothing. Then I red an article today indicating that a new MacPro is not likely to appear until 2012 due to supply chain on Intel server class processors that it would likely use (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/21/...st-early-2012/). It also looks like speed bumped MacBook Pros are coming shortly after the Scarlet announcement in November. During this wait I have been debating the power vs. portability of the two different machines for a while and the lack of spec vs. spec comparison has been a challenge. Do I give up the power of the desktop for the ability to edit anywhere or do I really need the power. So I am putting it to the community. Is the latest MacBook Pro able to get the job done for a Red workflow or is a MacPro a must? Keep in mind that I am looking at smaller projects like commercials and shorts opposed to feature length.

As an aside I am also looking for comments on where the Ivy Bridge processors would fit in this picture. Everything I have read tells me that the performance benefit will be in small mobiles like the MacBook Air. I haven't seen anything that tells me that it will be a huge improvement to the MacBook Pro and Pro lines. If it does perhaps the decision just got more complicated.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I feel your pain. As we stand today the value proposition of the Mac laptops with Thunderbolt is compelling, but an updated tower might offer a whole different level of performance.

One issue you might want to consider in terms of R3D workflows is whether you would get a Red Rocket or not. A thunderbolt enabled portable enclosure that could host a Rocket was recently announced and it could theoretically be mated with a MacBook Pro for a very capable and very portable solution. Jeff Kilgroe feels like with enough CPU horsepower you might be OK without a Rocket, but that would take serious tower power - 12 core Westmere. Jeff, correct me if I am misrepresenting your position.

All this waiting is almost enough to make we go Windows - welllllll... maybe not ;-)

Cheers - #19

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Depending on your intended workflow, you may get by without a Rocket. If you spend a lot of time in Redcine-X, then you will need the Rocket, regardless. Redcine-X has been optimized for the Rocket and thus far does not scale well across multiple processors as the only Redcine did. Hopefully Redcine-X Pro will do be much better at this... Within the next year or so, workstations will outpace the Rocket card in terms of R3D crunching power. In many ways, the latest E-Series Xeon CPUs, especially the 10-core monster ones, already have.

As an interim solution, there's the possibility of an iMac as well. The current 27" iMac performs on par with an '08 Mac Pro in most situations. The down-side to it as a real workstation is the lack of CUDA acceleration and none of the Thunderbolt PCIe expanders have hit the market yet. We'll probably see a new Mac Pro about the time we get the peripherals to really turn an iMac into an R3D power-house. Probably will see updated iMacs about then too.

For now, if you're on the fence and trying to add a system for R3D workflow, you would probably do better (money-wise) to build an i7 6-core PC with a RED Rocket. If you need to go the Mac route for ProRes workflows, then maybe take a look at a used or refurbished Mac Pro, perhaps a 2009 model or a 2010 Westmere model with slower, less expensive CPUs. Just be sure you get two CPUs (8 cores or better), so you can maximize the memory bandwidth in the system.

If Scarlet is to be the primary camera, then don't do anything until after the Scarlet clarification on the 3rd. If Scarlet remains 3K at 12bit, then I would be hesitant to purchase a Rocket card. My '09 2.93GHz 8-core system rips through 3K R3D footage pretty well without the Rocket. The Westmere systems are a bit faster, an 8-core 2.6GHz Westmere is pretty similar in performance to my '09 tower.

If you're working primarily in Adobe CS5.5, you can get by without a Rocket in many situations because you can still assemble and edit footage with real-time performance and then your system only has to concentrate on rendering out your edit. If you will be transcoding for clients or for use in other workflows, that Rocket may still be worth it, even for 3K Scarlet.

[Ben Holmes]

The iMac is massively overlooked in this current dilemma. You could even call one portable if you got a carry bag for it, and it's surely a hell of a lot better on set than a laptop for viewing.

Also, my i7 quad core iMacs smoke my 08 Mac Pros at FCP, PPro and AE. I don't doubt CUDA is good in Resolve, but it's massively overrated in PPro - it's just too limited in what it does. Buying a top of the line iMac is like buying a powerful workstation with a free 27" screen. In a few months, thunderbolt expansion options will get rid of all but the CUDA concerns.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

FWIW, the Promise Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID is a great storage solution for the iMac. Also, the LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk is great too -- Kinda heavy for its size, but I keep one with my Macbook Pro (a 2TB one) and it's pretty snappy.

A 27" iMac with the Promise RAID and a thunderbolt PCIe box to hold a RED Rocket would be a really nice solution. It has dual Thunderbolt ports, so upcoming TB to eSATA will also be great for connecting RED Station Modules or other such things.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Wait for the Mac Pro for your main edit system.

You can definitely handle some Red work on the 2011 MacBook Pros, but not enough to really edit a non-trivial project. On set stuff, and portability.

I aim to own the next revision of MacBook Pro ... but I'm hoping I can just buy a graphics card/Thunderbolt update to my current 2010 Mac Pro, and purchase whatever comes out in late 2012/2013 as its replacement.

[Cameron Dunlop]

All good advice gentlemen.

The one question I can answer is that between a Scarlet and a computer the Rocket won't likely fit into my budget. No question of its value to the workflow just a cost issue.

I do use Premeire so that further helps with the Rocket question. I would put myself in the sort of DSMC fashion photographer category of workflow (I shoot sports opposed to fashion) Does that make the MacBook Pro even more viable if editing 3k in Premeire?

I haven't necessary written off an iMac. I have looked at, but I would prefer a desktop that I can upgrade more than ram and a hard drive though. I look at it this way...if I am going desktop I might as well go all the way to the Pro and have the option to beef it up later with add ons like a rocket, more RAM, etc. My leaning is to a Pro, but I don't want to drop $4000 on an older model; I want the investment to last multiple years. My thinking with the MacBook pro is that if it is capable then maybe it would fill the gap at a lower cost for a year or two until I perhaps "need" to be at the highest level of performance and then invest in a Pro. Portability would just be a bonus in the short term.

Definitely not purchasing anything until after the Scarlet announcement. I have waited this long so a couple more weeks isn't going to kill me. Off course if Scarlet ends up being what I want when announced I could be in a situation where I have a kick ass camera with no computer to edit the footage with! Haha.

[Enrique Blein]

Also, probably it will take a few months before you actually have the Scarlet in your hands, so that leaves space for waiting out the MacPro tower... I will wait for the tower, even if it means working in ProRes meanwhile

[Cameron Dunlop]

Sounds like Scarlet could ship before a new MacPro, but we will see on that. I guess the wait will continue.

[Craig Schober]

spec bumps to macbook pro just posted on apple store...