Thread: Canon Vs Scarlett and why I held off on the click to order...

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  1. #1 Canon Vs Scarlett and why I held off on the click to order... 
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    Ok, I hope this wont be too controversial but I've been looking at these two cameras (C300-Scarlett-X) all day. I've been eagerly awaiting their arrival for at least the last couple of months and now they're here. It truly was an exciting day spent in front of my macbook awaiting the next dribble of information on twitter from people there.

    So which is the best fit, again like anything you can argue it from numerous different points of view until your blue in the face. Which is basically what I've been doing with myself all day long.

    So the specs on the Scarlett-X are impressive, but what's miffing me are the record rates. I'm a little confused and I understand red need to keep it sufficiently distant from the Epic, ok so job done there. But these record options and the windowing of the sensor I find frustrating.

    The Scarlett-X records 3K at up to 48 fps - Great. BUT for those of us in PAL countries we need 50 fps, sure we could pop down to 2K but by then, your putting on your widest lens which could be a little slower in your using stills lenses like a Zeiss, Canon or Nikon. Not to mention just having to do a lens change because you want to go off speed can be annoying and it takes time, precious time that can sometimes rob you of another take.

    For example if you're on a production using HMIs and Fluro's and you want to go off speed then you really want to be able to go to at least 50 fps, am I right here.

    Sure most HMI ballast's are flicker free these days but on indie productions - not always!

    Finally, I'm confused about what my field of view would be is a 50mm a 50mm or is it something different? I guess the 4K at 24/25 fps option will be giving me something close to a true Super 35mm frame?

    By my count once you kit this camera out it's coming pretty close to $20K just like the Canon, which I suspect may be a little cheaper when it hits the ground early next year at places like BHPhoto etc

    There's also additional costs to consider, you'll need batteries at least 4x Red Bricks, the red volts don't pack much punch from my understanding. You'd need at least 4x 64gb Red mags, and some other bells and whistles. Not to mention you'll be burning a lot of data and you'll need a decent PC or MAC set up probably with a Red rocket card realistically to get the most out of it.

    But on the other hand the Canon only shoots 1080 up to 30fps and up to 60fps at 720 - also pretty disappointing. By my count that really only leaves the Sony FS100 which though compressed can shoot at up to 50/60 fps in 1080 mode. The canon shoots to CF cards, something most of us have from our HD-SLR kits so that's a bonus for the canon camp, plus it will pretty much just pop straight onto your Zacuto or Red Rock style kit, where as the Scarlett-X she's a little heavier from my understanding?

    There's a lot to consider when contemplating a new camera kit. Ultimately the question will always be return on investment.

    P.S. I'm going from memory for most of the specs here but I should be pretty close, don't slam me too much if I've gotten a couple of things a little, let's say... off speed :-)
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Eirik Tyrihjel's Avatar
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    RED Scarlet is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the Canon option, one word: REDCODE!

    I am heading out to work now so I can´t go into detail, but this is a no brainer. RED wins!
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Imran Farouk's Avatar
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    Yeah but then again...if you work it right you get your money back correct? The thing I think you may have left out was Dragon. This is the key thing I'm pretty sure most people will forget given the flurry of details thats come out and decisions to be made but if its remebered, then you know the right path...

    Make the money, upgrade to Dragon...and never think that you ended up screwed like you would be going with Canon...you may start with the 300 now but the 400 will be even better and theres another body you have to buy, not an upgrade and the firmware fixes will cost you if they are major ones, if I'm not wrong...

    Yes you may want 50fps but if you can live without the 50fps or shooting at 2K to get that 50fps then your ok, survive it long enough,make the money and you can upgrade to something unbelievable. The upgrade though may cost you like 20K (speculating but we'll know in 2nd half 2012) but hey, like its said, work it right.

    RAW footage also wins hands down like Eirik said. It's a fact that RAW is superior to whatever the hell canon is on...as far as I know they aren't filming RAW...so correct me if I'm wrong there...

    for 15K (depending on where you go with the package) it will cost you less then the 20K...if you really want Scarlet all out filming it may push you towards 25K but hey, its up to you how well you can deal without some parts and so on...5K more for almost double the rez? 5K less for a pick up and shoot kit if you have the lenses? Its incredible and worth the purchase if you have the money and the understanding of what you would do with it and how to work around the limitations, like the one you pointed out, 50fps.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Jarek Zabczynski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirik Tyrihjel View Post
    RED wins!
    Flawless Victory...Fatality...
    Shoot for the Impossible...Then do it.

    Jarek Zabczynski
    Director / Editor / Cinematographer


    Scarlet X - #525 | Epic X - #??? | www.jarek.com | WE'LL BE ALRIGHT (Music Video) | INCREDIBLE (Scarlet Music Video)
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  5. #5  
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    Thanks for your thoughts Imran, I'm foggy on the Dragon sensor could you please provide some more details? I remember it being mentioned a couple of years ago but I don't remember any of the details...
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Lauri Kettunen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Howden View Post
    The Scarlett-X records 3K at up to 48 fps - Great. BUT for those of us in PAL countries we need 50 fps
    Adam, may I point out that for us in PAL countries it makes hardly any difference whether the maximum framerate is 48fps or 50fps. Whatever is the framerate, in playback its 25fps in PAL countries. So, say you shoot for 5 seconds in 50/48fps. Then in case of shooting 50fps the playback takes 10 seconds, and in case of 48fps it takes 9,6 seconds. Guess, not many will be able tell the difference.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri Kettunen View Post
    Adam, may I point out that for us in PAL countries it makes hardly any difference whether the maximum framerate is 48fps or 50fps. Whatever is the framerate, in playback its 25fps in PAL countries. So, say you shoot for 5 seconds in 50/48fps. Then in case of shooting 50fps the playback takes 10 seconds, and in case of 48fps it takes 9,6 seconds. Guess, not many will be able tell the difference.
    Yes, but imagine we step forward in a few years to 50p, then what?
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Jon Thomasberg's Avatar
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    While not an exhaustive comparison: 1) c300 is a 4:2:2 8-bit compressed image at 50Mbps (that is megaBITS), Scarlet is Redcode RAW at 55MBps (megaBYTES = 440Mbits) = lots more information AND in RAW; 2) If you want to shoot for 1080 out, you have still way more options on the Scarlet to get there a) shoot 3k at 4:1 RAW and then crop in if you choose to, or have safe area for post stabilization for any shaky handheld without having to upres to get your 1080, OR 2k@25fps RC3:1 -- C300 @1080 up to 30fps, so in your case 25. No wiggle room without upres for crops or stabilization. Want 60fps? Scarlet can shoot it at 2k RC4:1; c300 @720.
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  9. #9  
    There is no Comparison B/w C300 & Scarlet-X ... C300 is joke & S-X is a PRO CAM
    Sold Honda CBR 1000rr (Repsol Edition) for RED Scarlet | But Now Bye Bye Scarlet-X & Honda CBR 1000rr :(
    Scarlet-X is great for its price But not for ME with 6k - 7k budget
    [ Canon 550d | Sony HDV | Mac Pro 2009 | 15" rMBP 2012 ]
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Paul Ellington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Howden View Post
    Ok, I hope this wont be too controversial but I've been looking at these two cameras (C300-Scarlett-X) all day. I've been eagerly awaiting their arrival for at least the last couple of months and now they're here. It truly was an exciting day spent in front of my macbook awaiting the next dribble of information on twitter from people there.

    So which is the best fit, again like anything you can argue it from numerous different points of view until your blue in the face. Which is basically what I've been doing with myself all day long.

    So the specs on the Scarlett-X are impressive, but what's miffing me are the record rates. I'm a little confused and I understand red need to keep it sufficiently distant from the Epic, ok so job done there. But these record options and the windowing of the sensor I find frustrating.

    The Scarlett-X records 3K at up to 48 fps - Great. BUT for those of us in PAL countries we need 50 fps, sure we could pop down to 2K but by then, your putting on your widest lens which could be a little slower in your using stills lenses like a Zeiss, Canon or Nikon. Not to mention just having to do a lens change because you want to go off speed can be annoying and it takes time, precious time that can sometimes rob you of another take.

    For example if you're on a production using HMIs and Fluro's and you want to go off speed then you really want to be able to go to at least 50 fps, am I right here.

    Sure most HMI ballast's are flicker free these days but on indie productions - not always!

    Finally, I'm confused about what my field of view would be is a 50mm a 50mm or is it something different? I guess the 4K at 24/25 fps option will be giving me something close to a true Super 35mm frame?

    By my count once you kit this camera out it's coming pretty close to $20K just like the Canon, which I suspect may be a little cheaper when it hits the ground early next year at places like BHPhoto etc

    There's also additional costs to consider, you'll need batteries at least 4x Red Bricks, the red volts don't pack much punch from my understanding. You'd need at least 4x 64gb Red mags, and some other bells and whistles. Not to mention you'll be burning a lot of data and you'll need a decent PC or MAC set up probably with a Red rocket card realistically to get the most out of it.

    But on the other hand the Canon only shoots 1080 up to 30fps and up to 60fps at 720 - also pretty disappointing. By my count that really only leaves the Sony FS100 which though compressed can shoot at up to 50/60 fps in 1080 mode. The canon shoots to CF cards, something most of us have from our HD-SLR kits so that's a bonus for the canon camp, plus it will pretty much just pop straight onto your Zacuto or Red Rock style kit, where as the Scarlett-X she's a little heavier from my understanding?

    There's a lot to consider when contemplating a new camera kit. Ultimately the question will always be return on investment.

    P.S. I'm going from memory for most of the specs here but I should be pretty close, don't slam me too much if I've gotten a couple of things a little, let's say... off speed :-)
    I think even with the things you take issue with, if all the camera did was full 4K (let alone hdrx) and nothing else, it would still be so far ahead of everything else... GREED, in this case, is not good.

    Paul Ellington
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    NYU GRAD FILM • CLASS OF 2013
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