Samurai/Gemini/Sound Devices - Recorder

[Adam Howden]

Just thinking out loud, if putting a kit together you could potentially hold off on all the SSD stuff and go for something like the Samurai. This would mean no over/under cranking but you would have the advantage of being able to record to say Pro Res and hence would not have soo much data to process and store and would be a great solution for broadcast/web/short film production?

What do people know about these recorders? Is it possible to record a project at like 50p and have something like Cinema Tools make your NLE (FCP, AVID etc) see it as a slow motion stream?

Thoughts?

[Nick Pasquariello]

I've recorded a 720p stream out of a Sony EX3 straight to a Ki Pro Mini at 59.94 FPS. Then used CinemaTools (bundled with Final Cut Studio 3) to conform it to 24. Takes a fraction of a second to do the conform, and now it plays natively at 24fps (well, 23.976 to get technical).

I'd assume that things are the same, assuming that the stream out of the HDSDI is more than 30FPS and also that the recording device is looking to take in the matching frame rate.

That being said, if you will only ever be shooting to 1080p ProRes, you may want to look for a cheaper solution. Maybe even a Canon 5D. Everyone around these parts will tell you that the real beauty of RED is Redcode Raw. If you never touch the raws, and only go straight to ProRes, you will have a more streamlined workflow, but will lose out on a loooooooot of image data that can be used for both graphics/compositing, as well as grading.

Now, of course, all THAT being said, the new SoundDevices box is spiffy in that it can look, see that it's getting footage from an Epic (and I'm betting Scarlet soon if not already), and name the files the same. Benefit being that you can get ProRes from SoundDevices, and also Red Raw from an SSD drive attached to the camera, at the same time. Best of all worlds. Only downside there is that you don't get to do a minor grade or one-light in RedCine-X Pro prior to your editing. But the advantage is that you also don't have to transcode the footage to ProRes. Which, without a Red Rocket, takes a looooooooong time.

[Adam Howden]

Hey Nick,

Yeah pretty much my thoughts exactly, thanks! I guess I'm looking at the best way to upgrade from a 7D kit to a mini Scarlett kit, I think the external recorder is a good option. Most projects in non cinema land are finished to 1080p at best and the external recorder could be a great entry to the Scarlett, get it working then add more to the kit as you go.

That's cool about the Cinema Tools conversion thing, I wonder how it would work on the Scarlett.

Would be great if some of the Red Team could chime in on this one?

[stu aull]

I too will be taking a hard look at an out-board recorder ( the PIX 240) as an alternate recorder till SSD prices fall. Much as I love the whole shoot-at-4K-REDRAW-then-conform-to-HD idea. Just can't make the required amount of useable SSDs cost jive with the bigger-than-expected-$-bite the new Scarlet took out of my wallet. I know many Epic owners can't get past (more likely: don't _have_ too) the odious thought of RED cameras as Direct-to-ProRes recorders, but I think this will be a viable alternative to many Scarlet users and their non-cinematic (read: TV/corporate/event) clients.

RED has already "approved" PIX as a viable device, tho I understand there is some scaling issues with the recorded image that need to be resolved. PIX has incorporated some RED specific tech such as menu-selectable TC sync, record triggering, etc. And Sound Devices' quality is legendary in the Industry so these are solid units. Add the fact that a Pix-approved 256GB SSD is something around $600 vs $3200 for RED 128GB... well you can see this goes a _long_ way towards the $2800 price of the 240 AND additional media for the near future. (And even better with Samuri products)

One of the questions I have is:
If the camera is set to record at, say, 4K - would the DOF advantages of this setting translate to the 1080i PIX recorder? I would assume it would since it would be "seeing" the same thing the camera does.

Beyond their nod of approval, I am not sure we can expect anything like enthusiastic support from the folks at RED, since a 1080i recorder pretty well flies in the face of the whole 4K-ethos of RED.

Since PIX have only just started to show up and some EPIC users have expressed interest in using them, we should all keep tabs in the EPIC forum and see what they are experiencing. There is an active "PIX 240" thread there right now.

Finally - we should all be shouting from the rooftops to the various recorder companies that SCARLET is alive and well and looking for viable recording options. I think SCARLET users will represent the biggest RED user group of these recorders and we do ourselves a favor by contacting the manufacturers and let them know we are in the market....

Stu Aull
Alaska

[Enrique Blein]

Quick questions about external recorders: do you get a flat image, or can you send to the HDMI output, a RedLog version of what you are recording, in order to have an approximate of what you want

[Adam Howden]

Good question Enrique, I can't answer that - hopefully someone can. If I remember correctly with the Red One and Epic I think you can set the video out to have the LUT on or off. Having the LUT off would mean that you'd be recoding a ProResHQ stream of the RAW image. If you can do this, that would be exceptional!

[Brian Iannone]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you lose all the benefits of recording in RAW if you use an external recorder? To me, that makes no sense at all... Why shoot with SCARLET if you're going to abandon the RAW capabilities?

[Adam Howden]

See response from Atomos here...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...TE-HERE!/page3

[Steve Das]

comparison chart of all the recorders here

http://resources.abelcine.com/files/...t_11.03.11.pdf

[Ian McGrew]

Hand down to me the Pix 240 looks to be the best... I also love that it has a monitor built into it... However I just can't get over how big it is!