ENG does not belonge here

[Steve Gibby]

Hey James,

I haven't used the Sigma 120-300 f2.8 on Epic yet - but I have read some reviews of the lens from still shooters and they were really positive. The reports were that the build is solid, contrast is very good, the lens is quite crisp. It is wildlife and sports shooters who wrote the reviews. The lens costs $3,200 on B&H. Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...2_8_EX_DG.html

The lens weighs just 6.5 pounds and is only 11.4" long.

Add in a 1.4x and you'd have a 168-420 f4 zoom (on FF35). Add in a 2x and you'd have a 240-600 f5.6 zoom (on FF35).

I've been thinking of testing out the above on Epic for sports and wildlife shooting for months now - but haven't gotten around to it.

As I remember, Red has tested out many Sigma lenses on Epic and entered them into the Red database. You might just check with Red to see if they've tested the Sigma 120-300 on Epic.

I've been using Miller tripods since August 2007 with my Red cameras. I'm now sponsored by Miller, so for mobile lightweight Epic tripod setups, I use the Miller Compass 25 head, in tandem with the Miler Solo 1505 spreader-less CF legs. The head has excellent action, the combo weighs just 13 pounds, and the head will support up to 31 pounds. We tested a Compass 25 head with Epic M 0008 clear back in March, using Ketch's spreader-less Gitzo legs. The results were excellent.

Miller Compass 25/Solo 1505 CF combo link: http://www.millertripods.com/product...3D2%26page%3D3

Hope the above info helps you out...

[James Brundige]

Thanks, Gibby, very generous with your advice as always. I've been using the Miller solo legs for a while - easy and light. I have 75mm and 100mm bowl versions. Sachtler heads, but that's my history showing. I might give the Sigma a try, but I'm a little nervous because Sigma is the only lens to die completely on me - in the central Amazon. Luckily, I had Nikons to cover.

Do your teams ever shoot 3K, or only 4? I'm wondering if that's a viable way to get a little more reach and DOF. That and f/8 when critters are running fast.

[Steve Gibby]

Happy to help James. Yes, those Miller Solo legs are great for mobile work. I've had pretty good luck with the Sigma lenses I've used.

Even with RedOne we've shot a lot of 3k for sports and wildlife when we needed higher frame rates to overcrank shots. With Epic we've been shooting 5k when its needed, 4kHD for most everything else, and some 3k when we wanted/needed even higher frame rates. As you know, most wildlife and sports motion sequences, where the subject is moving moderately fast to fast, are shot around f8, so DOF is deeper. If your finish is for HDTV, then 3k is more than enough resolution - Graeme's 85% after debayer leaves 2.55k, which downsamples to 1080p very well. Then again, you may want to shoot most of your Africa program in 4kHD, then just go to 3k when you want to seriously overcrank some action shots.

[Joe Pontecorvo]

Thanks Nick and James for the lens advice. I've been playing around with the idea of shooting with PL mount, but just feel for what I am doing the lighter DSLR lenses are better suited, at least for this shoot.
I ordered a Nikon mount as well as the Canon mount, but still waiting on both.
On the Canon mount for the Epic the current firmware does not support extenders from what I hear, but this would not be a problem with the Nikon mount. The Sigma 120-300mm and the Nikon 50-300 sound like good choices. Right now I am doing all my testing with my Sony F3 and Nikon mount.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Extenders will currently work on the EPIC Canon mount... They're just not firmware supported to be properly recognized and to relay lens communication. So using an extender makes your electronic "smart" mount into a "dumb" mount. Currently the only Nikon mount available for the EPIC is the Optitek one. It's great, but it's a "dumb" mount with no electronic communication or lens control. RED should have their own electronic "smart" Nikon mount here soon.

[James Brundige]

Sorry to have drifted the discussion into lenses, but always good to hear Gibby's advice.

Back on topic. IMHO Red has one great weakness for EFP. Audio implementation is still poor. The Pro I/O is a chance to fix that, but without good meters (higher rez than the viewfinder versions) and pots (physical gain control), my EX-1 is still better. In fact, I shoot most interviews (unless it's a really complex background) on the Sony. I'm working on a Sound Devices rig that I hope will fix that problem. My background is in audio, so I'm pretty picky. (in the small world department, my last audio job was for Rob Gardner in Antarctica 1995)

I understand Red's focus on cinema. Audio comes later, hopefully soon. Epic now only takes audio at 24 fps, so I'll be shooting double system for 30 fps American TV. And interviews on the EX-1. It's a pain to carry a separate camera system, but for long interviews, I like having greater compression and not the huge files to manage in the field. I have a wallet of SD cards that holds 28 hours of XDCAM.

That's why I think Red pulled back from the 2/3 Scarlet idea. There are lots of good cheap solutions in that niche.

As far as EFP imaging goes, Epic is amazing. It fixes all the shortcomings of the Red One, and and takes it to a new level. The form factor is much more portable, and battery and media options that much better as well. I haven't done a big remote shoot yet, so still curious about how much data we'll have to manage in the field. Hoping for a Thunderbolt Red Station option to help laptop storage solutions. I sprung for 4 256 Gb Redmags, and hope I can keep up on long shooting days. I'll post my new backpack rig when the battery module (the last key piece) arrives.

[Will Keir]

I agree. I am happy to see the Epic put to use making films. For news footage, I am perfectly happy with anything of clear watchable quality. The News uses camera shots as a part of their vehicle for telling the story. The R1/Epic IS the vehicle for telling stories.

Yes.

It's true.

News organizations did not flock toward buying RED cameras. I've always seen it as a replacement for 35mm film never for Electronic News Gathering.

I'm happy about that. Plenty of cheap video cameras are made for news gathering including the iPhone 4.

David

[Steve Gibby]

Will,

If you read through this entire thread basically everyone on it agrees as follows:

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for ENG (Electronic News Gathering)?
A: Not a highly practical choice for a variety of factors (see my Sticky post at the top of this forum)

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for EFP (Electronic Field Production)?
A: Definitely a good choice, and has been used widely for EFP work.

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for cine style production (making "films" even though obviously no film is used)?
A: Definitely a good choice, and has been used widely for cine-style work.

End notes: Some don't like the traditional terms ENG and EFP when reference is made to using electronic cameras like the Red cameras (which technology is an outgrowth of electronic EFP and DSLR camera systems) - but they're curiously quite happy with using an even more anachronistic term of "film" when describing their work with these electronic Red cameras.

Everybody doesn't make "films" with their Red cameras - in fact a huge percentage of Red camera users make television programs, and other forms of motion media projects with Red cameras. Its a very diverse industry now - and thus there's a great diversity of valid approaches to using these modular and adaptable cameras made by Red.

[Martin Stevens]

Will,

If you read through this entire thread basically everyone on it agrees as follows:

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for ENG (Electronic News Gathering)?
A: Not a practical choice for a variety of factors.

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for EFP (Electronic Field Production)?
A: Definitely a good choice, and has been used widely for EFP work.

Q: Red One, Epic, and Scarlet for cine style production (making "films" even though obviously no film is used)?
A: Definitely a good choice, and has been used widely for cine-style work.

End note: Some don't like the traditional terms ENG and EFP when reference is made to using electronic cameras like the Red cameras (which technology is an outgrowth of electronic EFP and DSLR camera systems) - but they're curiously quite happy with using an even more anachronistic term as "film" when describing their work with these electronic Red cameras.

Thanks for summing up.

Great work!

[David Rasberry]

I still long for a more field practical higher than 2k resolution S16mm format option from Red. The 3.3u pixel format of the 2/3" Scarlet would support 4kHD 3840x2160 in an S16 sized sensor.
There are many of us who would prefer this over 35mm with higher frame rate performance, 60fps @ 4kHD and 120fps @ 3k like the original Scarlet spec for general production work even if it cost the same as Scarlet-X.