Open question to BM: How would you feel if you just bought Resolve?

[Hans von Sonntag]

Unless, of course, Adobe does something stupid (like Apple) and roll the technology into Premiere as a plug-in. Or implements it in AE like Color Finesse.

I'm a long time SpeedGrade user. And I can tell you the best thing for the user would be to implement Iridas' superior technology in an NLE, in a Adobe's case Premier Pro. Roundtripping, conforming, re-conforming is not fun. The longer, the complexer the project, the more demanding the client, or yourself, the more tedious and creativity hindering is a stand-alone CC application. IMHO, the times of grading software are over. IMHO, BM is late at the party.

Hans

[Hans von Sonntag]

I'm hoping that since the product is free a lot of those crappy HDSLR movies that go without any attention to color will now get some.

Only a few FCP users ever bothered to open the free-of-charge Color once, let alone to use it for a project. Most people/clients don't care really. Is great if it looks okay. Any NLE is able to make a video look okay. For a more fancy look a a plugin with a template will do it just fine. The fact that Resolve is now for free won't change anything to the better in this regard.


Hans

[Mark Wilkinson]

Ok, fair enough. But the implementation needs to be very robust. Not just a 3 wheel plug-in.

But what about memorized grades? What about stills libraries and all the other time-saving and workflow issues that grading apps are good at? If all that is in Premiere, then fine.

If the roundtrip felt more like a different interface layout in Premiere - that would be great. Who cares if it is called a different app or not. If it works, it works.

My issue is professional workflow tools in a color corrector - not just the color correcting.

[Shane Betts]

I had to deal with this kind of nonsense when I worked at BM 8 years back. There are some very simple principles here.

First, is the licence you bought still worth the money you paid for it? Pretty hard to argue that one. A year before you paid out your precious $1,000 it was selling for $850,000. You poor dear, you've been ripped off. Horrible, mean old BMD.

Second principle. Just because the producer's daughter gets the free licence doesn't mean she has any idea or talent for the job at hand. It's the oldest, tiredest old industry whinge that "soon anyone will have the gear I have and I'll never get a job". True - if you're a no talent, unprofessional bum - but if you are actually a talented, professional operator, charge for you and you'll get work. (not suggesting you are a no talent unprofessional bum ,merely saying relax, you'll still get work). The same old cry of the sky is falling went up when Final Cut Pro was released, when Mini DV came out, when Red entered the market. The only people to suffer are those who hide behind their lack of something real to offer by having the most gear. Flawed, elitist business model and glad to see the back of it.

Three, how can you complain that BM's decisions have destroyed the industry and will put people out of work when, as has been pointed out, hacked and pirated software costs nothing either. Most producers I know have Macs and PCs full of hacked and pirated software. Whilst they lack the will to spend money on software and gear, they also lack the will to learn how to use it or the time to actually complete the job. Sure, there are those that will elect to become one man bands and do it all themselves. This forum is full of such types (of which I am one) but most of us actually have a background as DP's or editors etc.

Don't trade on the gear you own or what you paid for it. Trade on your talent, professionalism and experience. The moment you start putting the price you paid for your gear on your rate card you open yourself up to getting slammed by the big post houses, who will always have more than you.

And, lets' do the math here. One percent of purchase price per day. So you paid $1,000 for a Resolve license. That's worth, let me see - $10 a day in rental. Over a 10 hour day thats... My hourly rate is $70. If I offer Resolve Lite I can only charge $69? Come on. Gimme a break.

[Hans von Sonntag]

Ok, fair enough. But the implementation needs to be very robust. Not just a 3 wheel plug-in.

But what about memorized grades? What about stills libraries and all the other time-saving and workflow issues that grading apps are good at? If all that is in Premiere, then fine.

If the roundtrip felt more like a different interface layout in Premiere - that would be great. Who cares if it is called a different app or not. If it works, it works.

My issue is professional workflow tools in a color corrector - not just the color correcting.

Fully agreed!

Hans

[Jay A. Kelley]

People that work in color correction are artists. Their job is hard, the nessesary skill set it massive. Not only is it about talent, it's about speed. A good colorist demands a LOT of money per hour, but they still have to deliver VALUE for that time, so they need to be quick. There is a reason the work surface for these programs costs so much.

I do not believe for one second that lowering the cost of the software will hurt the industry. Sure more idiots will come in to try it out, but that has always been the case. The cream rises to the top.

Jay

[Rob Ruffo]

The possibility of this producing more talented colorists is a good thing, I think. The technology we work with are changing rapidly. Switching from one editing system to another, and now coloring tools. Frustrating? Maybe. I think roll with the punches is a more creative approach.

But a business having descended into super-low wages will not produce more colorists. It will, in the end, produce none.

[Rob Ruffo]

I had to deal with this kind of nonsense when I worked at BM 8 years back. There are some very simple principles here.

First, is the licence you bought still worth the money you paid for it? Pretty hard to argue that one. A year before you paid out your precious $1,000 it was selling for $850,000. You poor dear, you've been ripped off. Horrible, mean old BMD.

Second principle. Just because the producer's daughter gets the free licence doesn't mean she has any idea or talent for the job at hand. It's the oldest, tiredest old industry whinge that "soon anyone will have the gear I have and I'll never get a job". True - if you're a no talent, unprofessional bum - but if you are actually a talented, professional operator, charge for you and you'll get work. (not suggesting you are a no talent unprofessional bum ,merely saying relax, you'll still get work). The same old cry of the sky is falling went up when Final Cut Pro was released, when Mini DV came out, when Red entered the market. The only people to suffer are those who hide behind their lack of something real to offer by having the most gear. Flawed, elitist business model and glad to see the back of it.

Three, how can you complain that BM's decisions have destroyed the industry and will put people out of work when, as has been pointed out, hacked and pirated software costs nothing either. Most producers I know have Macs and PCs full of hacked and pirated software. Whilst they lack the will to spend money on software and gear, they also lack the will to learn how to use it or the time to actually complete the job. Sure, there are those that will elect to become one man bands and do it all themselves. This forum is full of such types (of which I am one) but most of us actually have a background as DP's or editors etc.

Don't trade on the gear you own or what you paid for it. Trade on your talent, professionalism and experience. The moment you start putting the price you paid for your gear on your rate card you open yourself up to getting slammed by the big post houses, who will always have more than you.

And, lets' do the math here. One percent of purchase price per day. So you paid $1,000 for a Resolve license. That's worth, let me see - $10 a day in rental. Over a 10 hour day thats... My hourly rate is $70. If I offer Resolve Lite I can only charge $69? Come on. Gimme a break.

That's a good post. However, I don't hide behind my gear with clients - I don't even mention it, except, again, to my accountant. Gear should be an investment in your bottom line, so that you rent less, rent to others, and come out further ahead at the end of the year, not a sales tactic for when you offer yourself as a creative professional. But that said, I think I, and even more so (850 times more) the 850K buyers from 2 years ago have a right to our low opinion of BM. 1000 is not a lot to me, but it is a lot to a percentage of those who bought it., especially those who bought it very recently. They screwed us, as we did not buy the set of differences from what anyone could get for free that we thought we were buying, and I would not have paid $1000 for two weeks of access, as I purchased two weeks ago. We will no longer be able to buy gear if depreciation is sometimes 100% in two weeks. Gear is supposed to be a resellable asset with a somewhat predictable depreciation, at least within reason, and software is a form of gear. If we can no longer buy software, and no one can, then I don't see how new tools will be developed.Luckily, most companies have less complete, callous disregard for their paying clientele than BM. The 850K guys have even more of a right to be pissed, for sure - all in all you can see how BM is not making any friends among anyone with any money in the color business.

You all scream elitist and so on, but really if there are no more affluent people in the business, there is no more business.

[Ramesh Jai]

If your livelihood depends solely on the tools you have and not on your talent then you are in the rental business. And even that needs talent. There's a point in there somewhere for Mr. Ruffo.

[jake blackstone]

We're all in the rental business. We rent out our talent and time in exchange for a payday. Not that much different, than renting out shoes in a bowling alley:-)