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  1. #1 Please help me grasp the RED workflow - never edited R3D RAW before! 
    Hello, first time poster here :) I'm a camera operator (I own the Sony EX1 and FS100) and Vegas Pro editor (I do music videos).

    It so happened that - due to my neck spine illness and surgeries - I couldn't participate in actual recording of several last our projects, and I'm ending up with editing them now without having any influence on how they were realized. And here I am again, facing a mix of so many variables:

    - 10 cameras of all kinds (mostly EXs, but also one Canon SDLR and one RED recording RAW R3D 4k files)
    - some of the clips do not have timecode or sound (!!!)
    - using my new PC for the first time (I wrote elsewhere it's really flying, but still I'm not 100% certain it will not act on me in the most unexpected ways)
    - using VP11 for the first time for such a complex project (I know, I know - it's not 100% stable yet - but I do need the CUDA acceleration).

    Last night I had to wait several hours (sic!) for Vegas to complete generating fsk files for the RED clips. During that operation Vegas was totally unresponsive, so I couldn't even check the RED C files properties... Now I know they are RAW files of 3840x2160 resolution!

    I never ever dealt with REDC Raw, so please advise:

    - what kind of proxies should I create to them, considering all remaining material is 1080p?
    - I understand now the MOV files that accompany R3Ds in each subfolder on the disk I got are low res proxies - but how do I use them, if they do not display picture in Vegas (sound only)? Also, they are strangely small in size?

    I'm a complete newbie to the RED formats, and only got a ready project on a HDD, with folder structure and content created by somebody else. Seeing plenty of xxx_01, ... (up to xxx_40) R3D, 2GB files in each folder, I have simply copied all of them to my project's media bin, and then placed on the T/L. But upon inspection I can see all files of a given directory contain the same coverage! This is confirmed by TC in/out values in the Project Media detailed view.

    What is strange to me is:

    - why as many as 40 files off-loaded when each of them has the same content? Even if "3D" suggests well... 3D, why so many of them?

    - apart from all those (up to 40) files of 2GB length each, there are single shorter files of the same prefix name in each directory; now - I checked their TC in/out and they show exactly the same as their larger, 2GB counterparts!
    I have tried to use the Import->Media->RED option hoping that the original structure of the folders will be somehow recognized by Vegas, and I'll be led by hand in picking the right file out of the 50 in each folder - to no avail. Still can pick any of them - and even though it's only 2 GB, I have over 40 mins event on the timeline! But:

    - I have empty space on my track (as if some other file should also be present - I don't know which)

    - the MOV files (large), which probably are proxies of lower res and contain the full take unlike the spanned R3D files, still only plays audio

    One thing I did find out this way is that now - under right-click on media file in the bin - I can access the RAW file controls (RGB control, LUT, denoising, LPOF, and many others).

    Also - and this is a more general finding - I found out that it's NOT the track of RAW high-res R3D files that - when contained in my 10-camera multi-track -slows down playback dramatically (from 25 to 5 fps). It seems to exist a limit of 8 track (no matter which format), below which I'm getting full 25 fps even at Best/Full. Add a single more track - even a lower res - and the 9 or 10-camera multi-track crawls at 5 fps, even on my new fast HW!


    Please help me graps the proper RED workflow in Vegas! TIA

    Piotr
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  2. #2  
    OK, still not a single answer - so I hope you will forgive me if I bump this threadd a little :)

    I realize there's many questions in my OP, so let me squeeze it down to just the following two:

    - what is the philosophy behind that many 2GB files with the same "coverage" (TC in/out points), and is it OK to just put one of them (per directory) on Vegas timeline?

    - when rendering a 4K raw file with down-rezzing to HD, I'm getting a rather soft picture; what resolution setting should I pick from the RAW media properties prior to rendering my project so that the outcome is the sharpest in HD?

    TIA,

    Piotr
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  3. #3  
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    I want to help you but I dont do Vegas, so i dont at all want to mislead you, hang tight im sure someone will chime in dont get discouraged.

    Best of luck.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Tim Whitcomb's Avatar
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    Well, is always best practice with RAW to engineer Red Workflows BACKWARDS. Given you have a 1080P deliverable, the easiest workflow for combing with all that EX -1 footage is to use REDCINE- X and TRANSCODE all those R3D's to the same flavor as your EX-1 1080P deliverable. Prores, uncompressed, etc, Lots of choices.

    CHoose at least 1/2 debayer for the transcode- or if you can find a Red Rocket... do a FULL 4K Debayer (it takes forever without a rocket) but once you have transcoded all your RED RAW to a 1080P codec that Sony Vegas likes... drop it on the timeline with the other material and off you go and then grade and deliver.

    Don't over think RED. Its not that hard. RAW is kind of like shooting film ,just remember one has to PROCESS the footage after one shoots. Then you take the processed materials and plug them into your workflow.

    OR you can switch to Adobe, drop the RAW on the timeline, it will scale for you and off you go. :P
    Kind regards,

    Tim Whitcomb
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  5. #5  
    Thanks a lot Gentlemen.

    So debayer is the way to go before rendering to HD. And how about the other control I have in Vegas for the RAW files: Resolution (or Detail - Full, Medium, etc.)? Sorry if I used a wrong name for the control (haven't got my Vegas project open or available a the moment), but I'm sure you know whih one I mean.

    Also, if I wanted to do some pan&scan (with a 1920x1080 window), do the general recommendations for debayering (and possibly Resolution, or whatever it's called) still apply as for the full 4K picture down-rezzing?

    Thanks

    Piotr
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Scott Snare's Avatar
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    I would do selects in Redcine X, create a look that is close what is desired, render at 1/2 debayer for increased speed to a compatable Hd format, and rename clips to help identify them for editing purposes. This should give you speed and quality needed for an HD deliverable from your red footage.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Snare View Post
    I would do selects in Redcine X, .
    Thanks Scott, but I have no idea what you mean - I've been given the R3D files, and have no idea how to do it. Could you elaborate please?

    Piotr
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  8. #8  
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    Download Redcine-X here: https://www.red.com/support/all/downloads
    It is used to grade footage and transcode it to a format of your liking...you could create the XDCam footage here and select 1/2 debayer resolution as they suggested above.
    Some people edit with these new rendered clips and then at the end re-link them to the original R3D files in order to do a proper colour correction or finish in 4K. (not your case)
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  9. #9  
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    There's a basic tutorial about Redcine-X here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9IIpFvx0uA
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  10. #10  
    Thanks again - I'm getting closer :)
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