Corrupt Frames on CF-Card

[martinnoweck]

Hello,

an editor friend of mine called me yesterday, claiming they had a red shoot a couple of weeks ago and - because the RED ONE was on a crane - they couldn't observe the drop frames counter and now they having troubles with dropped frames. They shot on CF-Cards, so I am wondering because I never had an issue with dropped frames on (RED) CF cards (i had a couple with drives) - what is the indication of the camera reporting dropped frames? I mean, is there a communcation between camera and cf module about how many frames to expect and how many frames recorded?

The send me an .r3d file of sample footage asking if there is something i could help, loading the footage (2k) into redcine-x results in a freezed frame in the viewer, and transcoding to dnxhd or prores4444 leads to a transcoded quicktime file, which only contains black.

Any thoughts on this?

Best wishes and kind regards,
Martin

[John Marchant]

CF issues almost always come down to data integrity issues at the copying stage. Any chance at all the media is still on the cards somewhere? That could be the best shot at saving this situation IMHO.

I would cast doubt on their referring to them as dropped frames per se; given that they didn't see the camera report them they're basing the description of the problem on RCX failing to decode the footage. Dropped frames recording to CF sounds unlikely.

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I have no experience with RED cameras but I am aware that there will be dropped frames at the highest frame rates if CF cards are used. Was this slow-motion footage by any chance?

[Gunleik Groven]

Until now, all the dropped frame issues I have seen from CF cards and have been able to verify have been due to copying issues. The RED 16GB cards seem more prone to copying issues than the 8GB. I know Deanan disagrees, but from what I have seen, this has been true.

I know others have seen dropped frames on the original media, or have claimed that to be the case. I cannot but trust that. But I oversee some 2-400 shooting days a year (on several cameras) and have been for a while, and I haven't managed to replicate a media issue on the CF cards. Only copy issues.

Deanan will quickly point out that there's nothing wrong with the 16GB cards, just that a quite a few readers cannot handle them, as they get warm with the data xfer speeds, in which he of course is right. Still that leaves more issues with copying the 16 than the 8 gb cards... :)

[Deanan]

Until now, all the dropped frame issues I have seen from CF cards and have been able to verify have been due to copying issues. The RED 16GB cards seem more prone to copying issues than the 8GB. I know Deanan disagrees, but from what I have seen, this has been true.

I know others have seen dropped frames on the original media, or have claimed that to be the case. I cannot but trust that. But I oversee some 2-400 shooting days a year (on several cameras) and have been for a while, and I haven't managed to replicate a media issue on the CF cards. Only copy issues.

Deanan will quickly point out that there's nothing wrong with the 16GB cards, just that a quite a few readers cannot handle them, as they get warm with the data xfer speeds, in which he of course is right. Still that leaves more issues with copying the 16 than the 8 gb cards... :)

Wrong gunleik, the first think I'll point out that you shouldn't put words in my mouth. :)

The 16GB cards are the fastest cards for read speeds out there even today... around 100MB/s.
Most readers tend to be qualified and tested for speeds around 15MB/s.
So when you push alot of data through miscellaneous readers, the
either fall over trying to keep up with the cards or overheat trying.

This is why we made the redstation CF reader.

[Gunleik Groven]

So Deanan... How to answer this? :)

That it seems we agree on the basic result, if not the wording? :)

I knew you would step in on this thread, and I know we have a bit of difference in wording on this subject, still we do agree as far as I can see:

Get some proper copying of the cards, and the issues are most likely gone.
(Nope. These were not your words, but mine...)

Cheers!

G

[Brian Iannone]

Slightly off topic, but I'm just curious... Has anyone ever experienced any dropped frames with an EPIC or Scarlet while recording to a REDMAG?

[martinnoweck]

thanks for all your quick responses - much appreciated!

i think they made a copy / backup mistake ...

best wishes and kind regards,
martin