Stabilization

[Gopher77]

I know there was a thread about stabilization, but I couldn't find it, so here's my question. In that thread I remeber there was a statement something to the effect that since red has an overscan area we won't need stabilization. Also I remeber a statement that there will be no keyframes in Redcine. So where do we do stabilization at, in the NLE? will either Avid or Final Cut be capable of recognizing the over scan area?

Here is why I ask, I just shot a commercial for a large funiture retailer. I shot in HD and the footage was down converted to SD. One of the shots was a jib starting at the foot of the bed and jibing up and panning right to a three quarter of the bed. After several takes we felt we had a good shot. Once in editing the shot was sped up 400%. Several little bumps in the move became very appearant at that speed. These were not visible on the monitor though we could feel vibration in the floor.

So could I fix this in post with Red?

[Rob Lohman]

My advice is fix this while shooting. So cranes, steadicams, dollies etc. Then if you detect a problem in post there are ways to fix this. There is stabilization software out there and I have no doubt some of the bigger post applications have support for it as well (with auto tracking).

You can "fix" this with any camera. Question is how good will it look after it's done. Hence try to make it as good on set as you can.

[Gopher77]

Understand, it is being fixed in post, the bumps are very minor. But really my question is more about how we can take advantage of the over scan in post with the red.

[tj williams]

Guess that will never see version 1 of RED Cine. but it would make a great upgrade if using the 4K area one could make re-framings and track objects in frame. In an HD out this would really take advantage of the superior 4K area.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

If you plan to project or finish at 2K, then shooting at 4K is wonderful, because you can reframe and shift around in post, and nobody will notice. It won't look like a blow-up. When it comes to stabilization, however, I find that most post solutions aren't very good, even when you have loads of resolution to spare.

I've worked in post more than anything, and fix shots for a living some of the time, and the real issue with post-stabilization is motion blur. You can stabilize the image perfectly (so that all bumps are invisible), but the very fact that the camera moved when the image was captured, means there will be some motion blur in those frames. A million factors affect how much motion blur, of course. In some cases, with a small bump, these post fixes work well. But most of the time, you'll remove the bump, but the image will still blur at that moment.

So, although having lots of pixels will make this easier than usual, I wouldn't rely on the post-fix.

[Poi Boy]

I don't quite agree, I've found shake's stabalizer to work pretty well...I can tell the difference because it is my shot but I've never had someone else notice. I think when I do it with 4k footage and downress for broadcast it will be invisible.
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[ChristopherKenworthy]

Shake does a good job, of course, but it's all a question of how much you're trying to stabilize. I'm talking about clients shooting handheld as they run through a field, then handing it to a post house and wanting it to look like it was shot on a track dolly. I'm barely exaggerating.

But if you want to shoot 4K on a shoulder-mount, and then dial out a little of the float, then the technique will work wonderfully. It's the philosophy of 'fix it in the mix' that worries me. Even if you fix every shot yourself, that's a lot more time consuming than getting your operator to shoot a perfect shot on the day.

Anyway, this is something I'll test out in the first week that I get my camera. I'd never rely on this as a shooting approach, myself, but it would be good to know how much of a bump we can get rid of without having to reshoot.

[Poi Boy]

You are right, no stabilizer can make up for a stupid client.
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[Brook Willard]

Five minutes setting wedges beats an hour fixing a bad shot in post.

[Poi Boy]

Five minutes well spent for sure but sometimes a post stabalizer can be your best friend.
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