Thoughts and feedback for these three tripod+fluid head combinations

[Rob Anderson]

Most of my work takes place in a studio environment, while a small but critical fraction of my shoots are outdoors, in dusty, desert conditions, and sometimes on the top of a tall mountain. Odd combination, I know. But that's been my recent niche.

I have a RED One and an Epic-X on order. I'm shooting with RED Primes and I have the RP 18-85 Zoom and the 300mm. The combined camera (One), monitor, bomb, rails, a battery, all additional hardware, and the heaviest lens (18-85) clocks in at a few ounces under 40lbs.

I need a tripod+head that is rock steady for my studio work but still resilient enough (and "light" enough) to make it up the side of a mountain on someone's back. And once on the peaks, I need to have simple enough controls where we're not struggling through vital minutes fidgeting with dials. No rain, sleet, or snow as we climb during the "friendly" season.

Oh and I have a bit of a budget to consider. Anyone up to the task to help us get this sorted?

I've narrowed down three options that all seem to have their good and bad. While I appreciate there are a multitude of other options, I've sunk a lot of time into this search already and I'd prefer to keep the final pick down to within these three, unless someone shows me something that is extraordinarily the better choice. BH Photo links provided for specifications details only.

MILLER 1741 ARROW 55:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...55_Tripod.html

SACHTLER SYSTEM 20 S1 HD MCF:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._20_S1_HD.html

OCONNOR 1030HDSPKG (+ MILLER ENG CARBON FIBER 2-STAGE TRIPOD):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...dio_Fluid.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...r_2_Stage.html

Last, I've been shopping for a support bracket for the 18-85 and I've seen this one recommended elsewhere on here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...t_Bracket.html

Is the Chrosziel the best option and if not, could anyone make a recommendation otherwise?

Many, many thanks in advance for your help.

***UPDATE:
See here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...l=1#post944623

[Steve Gibby]

Here are my thoughts on that:

Of the head/legs combos you listed, if it were me the choice would be quite easy - the Miller Arrow 55 package 1741.

B&H price comparison of the packages you listed:
Sachtler - $9,963
O'Connor - $8,011
Miller - $6,189

Max load comparison of the packages you listed:
Miller - 55 pounds
Sachtler - 55 pounds
O'Connor - 53 pounds

The cost-to-performance ratio, and the cost-to-features ratio for the Miller combination far surpass those of other two packages. The Miller package costs $3,774 less than the Sachtler package, and $1,822 less than the O'Connor package - but the head performance of the Miller is every bit as good as those other two heads.

I've used Miller 55 heads exclusively with all of my Red One cameras since August 2007 - with great results and performance, whether doing stationary or mobile production. I've had head loads on the Miller 55 ranging from 55 pounds (fully accessorized Optimo 12), down to just 16 pounds - and head performance was spot-on.

This past year I also added in a Miller Compass 25/Miller Solo 1505 spreader-less CF legs combo to my kits for use with my Epic cameras - and the results have been exceptional. The Compass 25 supports a max of 31 pounds, thus easily satisfying all but the very heaviest Epic head load needs for mobile production.

Late this past year I became sponsored by Miller - but my opinions of their heads and legs, and their industry leading price-to-performance and price-to-features ratios were formed over many years of using their products - long before they approached me for sponsorship.

To be clear, all the major tripod manufacturers make very good quality heads and legs for their top-of-the-line products. Throughout my career I've also used tons of high-end O'Connor, Sachtler, and Vinten tripod systems, with very good results. But as an entrepreneur I'm in the good habit of keeping overhead and expenses down as much as possible. I see no reason to spend any more than I have to on equipment as long as what I buy is reliable, performs up my expectations, and is cost effective.

The above are my own opinions. Others may be fiercely brand-loyal or feel peer pressure to stick with their niche of the industry on their purchases. To each their own...

[Rob Anderson]

Steve, Fantastic feedback and I truly appreciate the detailed response. Thank you for the breakdown and the excellent perspective. For good reasons, I believe you've helped me make my choice. Now to shop around for a price that's hopefully a hair better than the B&H one. Thanks again.

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I was impressed by a Sachtler Cine 30 I encountered last year.

But I *own* the Miller Arrow. Price/performance. Agree 100% with Steve on that one. If you're really stuck on budget look for a used Arrow 50: not much difference in spec, considerable difference in price.

Mike

[rod bradley]

I too agree. Miller is highly under-rated in this country. I own and use both Oconnor and Miller heads. Nothing wrong with Sachtler either. But Miller is definitely the best deal and you don't give up performance.

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Tnhe concern I had with the Miller heads was that you couldn't really get the drag down to almost nothing where I like it.

The Sachtler heads I have used typically have a broader weight support range, including very light setups, and thus they offer very low drag options.

If you think you are likely to configure your Epic in a bare bones way, its worth giving this some thought. You can build a working Epic rig at around 9lbs if you want. (With a Canon prime ... I think)

That said, I definitely think that Miller is the best bargain!

[Steve Gibby]

I think you raise some interesting points Alexander...

The Sachtler head Rob mentioned he was considering is the System 20 S1. Here's a link to that head's specs:
http://www.sachtler.com/us/products/...ech-facts.html

The Miller head Rob mentioned he was considering is the Arrow 55. Here's a link to that head's specs:
http://www.millertripods.com/upload/...%20Systems.pdf

While its true the Sachtler 20 S1 head has a wider load range, with legs it also costs $3,774 more than the Arrow 55 with comparable legs through B&H.

Rob also mentioned that his style of shooting is more stationary, with head loads around 40 pounds with Red One. The minimum head load of the Arrow 55 is 22 pounds - thus the Arrow 55 is an excellent head choice for Rob's style of work and average head load - plus he saved $3,774 over the Sachtler. Both those heads have 7 selectable fluid drag settings for both pan and drag.

I mentioned in my previous post that the Miller 55 has been my head of choice with Red One for a wide variety of mobile style work. But I also mentioned that for my mobile work with Epic, with which I almost exclusively use 35mm still lenses, that the Miller Compass 25 is my head of choice. The Compass 25 supports a head range of 8.8 pounds to 30.9 pounds (4-14kg), thus it is ideal for mobile hybrid EFP style work with Epic using 35mm still lenses - or even mobile B camera cine style work with lightweight setups.

Here's a link to the Miller Compass 25 specs:
http://www.millertripods.com/upload/...%20systems.pdf

The Miller Compass 25 head sells on B&H for just $2,500
Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...luid_Head.html

If someone was to buy the Miller Arrow 55 head/legs combo for $6,189, and the Compass 25 head alone for $2,500 the total cost would be $8,689 - still a$1,274 savings over buying the Sachtler System 20 S1/legs combo.

I've attached a recent photo I received from my associate Ketch Rossi of Epic M8, jointly owned by myself and Ketch, in action in Dubai. Ketch has his own Miller Compass 25 head too - and absolutely loves it with Epic for his mobile work with Epic.

I've also attached a Feb 2011 photo of Epic M8 on one of my earlier model Miller Arrow 55 heads (Arrow HD). Accessorized with the Red Brick, ET Hybrid plate, 19mm 12" rods, Ruby 14-24, LCD, Side Handle with Red Volt, and Red Matte Box, the head load for that setup was just 13 pounds - well below the supposed minimum head load for the Miller 55 - and the head action with that light load was excellent.

There's another pic attached of a max-load (58 pounds) on one of my older Miller 55 heads in Hawaii at the Pipeline Masters surfing event in 2007. One of the rare times early on when I used a cine lens and matte box (notice no FF though). The head worked perfectly at that max load level - glass smooth through all the pans and tilts of close action follow of the surfing action.

The final pic is me shooting for a Nat Geo documentary in Alaska using a Miller Arrow 55 and Miller CF legs to support my Canon 150-600 setup. Head load was about 28 pounds. Again, perfect head action with that head load.


Post script:
The original poster (Rob Anderson) is an associate of mine. Based on my recommendations in this thread, and via email, he ended up buying the Miller Arrow 55 head/legs combo from B&H for $6,189. When he received it a few days ago he emailed me thanking me for my advice, and expressing his deep satisfaction with the quality of it.

I have great respect for the top-level heads made by Sachtler, O'Connor, Miller, and Vinten. I've used tons of each over the years. But as I mentioned before, IMO the performance to price ratio of the Miller heads is the best in this industry.

[A. Clint Litton]

+1 on the Miller. I love O'Connor heads, but while the 1030 is conceivably light enough to bring on a hike up a mountain, it's not the ideal head for such activities...furthermore, the HDS has a limited tilt range, which could eventually become a problem. I've owned a Sachtler Video 25 for my Red setup (with Cooke 20-100 zoom, so not far off the size you're working with), and I thought it was a great size for it's capacity, but still heavier than what you'd ideally want, and as many have already stated, the Miller should be able to compensate just fine under such payloads.

I haven't used the Miller Arrow 55 in the field, but I've used smaller Arrow heads in the past and always loved them from an operational standpoint.

The only other question I want to raise is would it be worthwhile to swap legs in your package? I've used these Miller legs, and while they're fairly easy to set-up (especially if you're on your own), I felt they were missing some of the robustness I've experienced with Sachtler legs. Just a thought, possibly worth considering down the road...you can always get the package and see how it works for you. In the meantime, if it's possible, try to get your hands on these heads/sticks for personal testing.

HTH,
Clint

[Steve Gibby]

Good question Clint...

For less mobile work with Red One I use a combination of Miller Arrow 55 head, and Miller Sprinter II Sprinter II 2-stage CF legs (mid-spreader).
Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nter_II_2.html

For super mobile work with Red One I use a combination of Miller Arrow 55 head, and Miller Solo 1505 spreaderless 3-stage CF legs.
Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...bon_Fiber.html

Since virtually all of what I shoot with Epic is mobile hybid EFP style using 35mm still lenses and no MB or FF, for all my Epic work I use the Compass 25 head, with either my Miller Solo legs for high mobility, or my Miller Sprinter II CF legs for more stationary work. The Solo CF legs are rated for 66 pounds, and the Sprinter II CF legs are rated for 99 pounds, so both sets of legs support way beyond the highest head load of both the Compass 25 (31 pounds) and Arrow 55 (55 pounds) heads.

Then once in a great while if I have to shoot a project with a head load way above the max of the Compass 25, I simply use my Arrow 55 head on the Sprinter II legs. Best of both worlds, I have four different head/legs combos available to choose from.

Everyone just really needs to closely analyze the style of shooting they do (cine or hybrid EFP), the lenses and accessories they use in that style, and then finally the head loads they normally have - then plan and buy accordingly. When they buy though, they need to then analyze which head/legs combo or combos have the best performance to price ratio. To me, that's been Miller for several years now...

[Ryan De Franco]

Steve, been reading your positive comments on Miller for years, recently tried a Cartoni Focus HD beside a Miller... The difference was there but hard to determine if the 3x price jump is worth it.

Does anyone have field experience with both heads and a 12-20 lb setup? Thanks very much.