30fps vs. 24fps - for TELEVISION DOCUMENTATIES ??

[George D.]

In your opinion, when shooting television documentaries for companies like National Geographic, PBS, Discovery Channel, or Animal Planet, does it matter whether you shoot with the Red-One at 30fps as opposed to 24fps ?

Since television is a 30fps format, I would think it would be advantages to shoot at 30fps, but do these companies have any real problems converting 24fps to 30fps in post ?

And, would there be any real advantages in shooting at 24fps as opposed to 30fps ?

During a production, if some scenes were shot at 24fps and others at 30fps, are there any problems combining those in post ? Does one have to be altered to match the other, and if so, should that be done in Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 during editing ?

Any help or advise would be appreciated, especially from those with experience shooting television documentaries for said companies.

Thanks.

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[Bruce Allen]

Television is only a 30fps format in NTSC countries.

24p or 50i or 60i all are a lot more cross-compatible than 30p.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[axel ebermann]

Those big networks usually give you a tech spec sheet and tell you exactly what they want.
if not - asking them never hurts :-)

[Vico Martin]

Allways can conform video and audio to 30 or 25 via pullup, just another step.
Advantages??, maybe more fillage on camera give you some filmic look, but not very noticeable in my experience.

[George D.]

Television is only a 30fps format in NTSC countries.

24p or 50i or 60i all are a lot more cross-compatible than 30p.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Maybe so, but WHICH do these documentary companies PREFER ??

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[George D.]

Allways can conform video and audio to 30 or 25 via pullup, just another step.
Advantages??, maybe more fillage on camera give you some filmic look, but not very noticeable in my experience.

Are you saying that 24fps gives a more "film look" than 30fps ?

.

[Marc Wielage]

Well, here's what the Discovery Channel (DCI) says about frame rates:

DCI prefers programs to be acquired and mastered in the 1080i 59.94 signal standard. Programs may be acquired in the 720 P 59.94 signal standard and mastered in 1080i 59.94 for delivery. Programs may be acquired and delivered in 1080 psf 23.98 or 25, or 1080i 50 only with prior permission from DCI.

National Geographic says:

NGC supports the production of television programming in the 720p 59.94fps, 25 & 50, 1080i 59.94fps [sic] 25 & 50, and 1080p 24fps formats. All Vendor Masters must be frame rate converted to 59.94fps and delivered at 59.94fps. NGC will not accept Vendor Master delivered in any other frame rate other than 59.94fps. Masters must be converted on acceptable broadcast quality conversion system. Conversion masters will be subjected to NGC’s quality control process and will be rejected if found to contain conversion artifacts or to be of poor quality. NGC does not support productions that are shot on HDV tape formats.

The reality, though, is you can always post your entire show in 23.98, and then convert to 1080i for the deliverables at the very end. Since they probably want drop-frame timecode anyway for broadcast, this can be a wise move.

It's an interesting creative choice as to whether to shoot in 29.97 or in 23.98, simply because the motion characteristics are different. I would argue that 29.97 looks more "real," so it might be a better choice for a news-type shoot (war zones, natural disasters, travelogues, etc.). But 23.98 looks more "filmic," so it might be more appropriate for a story-related shoot (historic recreations, dramatized scenes, etc.). If you have to use stock footage, that might also be a consideration; it's problematic to convert 29.97 material to 23.98 without time and effort, and there's lots of clips, it might actually be better to shoot at 29.97 in the first place.

[Matt Johnston]

My contracts with Nat Geo Productions have specifically stated "Material in the 24p format is not accepted"

[Stephen Strangways]

Nat Geo (and many if not most other networks) won't air anything mastered in 24p, but that doesn't mean they won't air something acquired at 24p, converted to 29.97 with a 3:2 pulldown, and mastered that way.

[Craig Parkes]

23.978p acquisition allows for conversion with the least potential of artifacts to all major broadcast frame-rates - so I would say if your subject matter was not greatly affected by your acquisition frame rate go for 23.978p acquisition.

However, documentary footage is almost invariably hugely impacted by acquisition frame rate - is it run or gun, or mostly static, long shots. Are you shooting in a 50 hz lighting environment, or 60hz (which affects shutter angle and frame rate) is your subject matter fast moving, or slow (fast moving you may want to be shooting 50 or 60 over 23.978 both for slow mo or for smooth playback).

Effectively, everything gets converted at some point unless it only plays in one territory, so if you are acquiring for a network that is paying the bills, acquire at the frame rate they suggest that makes the most sense for your subject matter.

If you are acquiring for documentary you are planning on selling, acquire knowing that conversions of masters will cost you money in post, so it may be best to acquire in the frame rate most appropriate to your main target market (so you can have less cash out the door before you see cash in the door.), after taking into consideration the practical ramifications of frame rate (like 50hz vs 60 hz lighting etc.)