4K for filmout

[Rodrigo Lizana]

Been looking for info on this but nothing yet. I´ve done a couple of film out (actually just sent the 1080 tiff sequence and Efilm did all the work on an Arrilaser machine). The footage was from a Varicam and it looked very nice projected on the big screen. Now this is the first test I´m going to do as soon as my Red arrive. A filmout from a short 4K material. But I´m a little bit confused about how I´m going to handle the 4K data. Tell me if I´m right.
1) Shoot 4k Redcode Raw.
2) Offline at 480p.
3) Online at 4K, encode to Tiff, DPX or similar and color correct.
4) How am I going to test and monitor the color corrected Tiff, DPX or similar at 4K ?.

At IBC 2005 I attended the Arri digital show and saw film footage scanned at 4K. It was far better than 2K scans and open up a whole new world in zooming capabilities for reframing and still being a better image than 2K.

Best regard to you all

[Rob Lohman]

Use a 4K projector? That's how we've shown footage IBC and a couple of other places. But for color you may not need to see the full 4K? I imagine a properly calibrated 2K monitor would be sufficient?

[Rodrigo Lizana]

Well 4K projectors are 60K and up if I´m not mistaken. What 2K monitors are you guys thinking of ?. Any recommendation ?.

[Rob Lohman]

More like 100K when you're all done. The only 2K stuff I know of are the Apple & DELL 30" screens, but they are obviously not color accurate. You could use a calibration device, but I don't know how close you'll get it.

Eizo makes color accurate screens, but they only go up to 1920 x 1200:
http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/ce240w/index.asp

[MikeCurtis]

Calibrating to film is a major technical challenge.

As for monitoring, do what a lot of folks do - calibrate a 1920x1080 monitor or (better) projector and work with downrezzed proxies to do your CC work. Then relink to the high res and re-render. Nobody, AFAIK, is CC'ing 4K in realtime anywhere - always a lower res.

For small shops/vendors, working on a Rec 709 calibrated monitor is a good place to start, although it has definite limitations and caveats.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I suggest, assuming you are not working with a big shop like Efilm - that you render our KEY SCENES from your film and record out a few tests - as there are SEVERAL film stock options for record out, each one will make your film look a bit different - and you then have the option of creating your own custom LUT for that film stock if you like - which you can apply to your entire project (assuming you are in a system like SCRATCH)

There are so many variables that effect film-record out (and in film processing in general) - and regardless of what anyone tells you, if you want to be happy ... TEST TEST TEST

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More like 100K when you're all done. The only 2K stuff I know of are the Apple & DELL 30" screens, but they are obviously not color accurate. You could use a calibration device, but I don't know how close you'll get it.

The Apple and Dell 30" screens work OK for print work if you calibrate with a colorimeter. They're great for editing and seeing lots of pixels, but I wouldn't trust one for color grading. Samsung has a new 30" panel that has a much wider color gamut and should be more suitable for video/film work, but so far the only company shipping one is HP. I think the HP design is butt-ugly from the overall shape to that horrid grey color. Dell was supposed to start using this panel in their next 30" display revision, but they have not done so yet. Apple uses both Samsung and LG 30" panels, but they haven't updated their 30" display with any of the latest panel models. Hopefully we'll see some more options at NAB. The HP monitor I mentioned does have a few nice features though. For starters, it's MSRP is the same as the Apple 30" (and it can be had cheaper from most online vendors) and it has three dual-link DVI inputs so you can use it with multiple systems without buying an additional DVI|DL switch, which usually runs about $1K for a 4-port.

As for Eizo/Nanao displays... They're not bad for color. Overall, they're not that great as far as monitors go. They're on par with LaCie displays... For the most part, they're the same junk everyone else sells, but they have additional color-drift circuitry that attempts to keep the color more stable so you don't have to calibrate as often. If you're looking for a CRT, I would definitely recommend the Eizo offerings. For LCD, you may as well get the Apple or Dell and buy your own colorimeter and calibration software. No reason to pay LaCie or Eizo a premium price for the same panel with the bundled kit you can buy elsewhere. ...Unless you want full studio monitor capabilities. Then you have some more choices at higher prices, but once again, nothing that does full 2K other than the Dell and Apple displays. Look at eCinema 23" displays -- the best color/contrast of any current LCD panel, IMO. They achieve this by using their own backlight system and screen overlay film. They are also designed to maintain consistant color... I was only exposed to them recently (by referral on these forums) and I went to check them out. Very impressive, but so is the price tag. They're "on sale" right now though.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I suggest, assuming you are not working with a big shop like Efilm - that you render our KEY SCENES from your film and record out a few tests - as there are SEVERAL film stock options for record out, each one will make your film look a bit different - and you then have the option of creating your own custom LUT for that film stock if you like - which you can apply to your entire project (assuming you are in a system like SCRATCH)

Which reminds me of something I've been wondering about... When processing REDCODE RAW in REDCINE... Will there be, or will we have the ability to create and/or download various LUTs that we can use? I could see an opportunity there to apply various LUTs and gamma curves to simulate certain film stock or video profiles. Although, REDCINE isn't exactly supposed to be your complete colorist package.

[Rob Lohman]

No, it's in the beginning of post, not near the end. However, Lucas did indicate you will be able to load our files into Scratch which does have such options.