Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: FINALLY!!! Got my Canon mounts and just tested the hell out of it!

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  1. #51  
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSi's Avatar
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    Glad Mark, and I do enjoy your posts a lot, so keep them coming, and I guess you did have an insanely good copy of the Canon 50mm 1.2... ;)



    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Hutson View Post
    I think what is interesting is that some have the thought that stills glass isn't really sharp enough and that there is some big problem with using it. In my thinking, still photos are scrutinized in detail far more than any motion picture. If Canon really ain't all that great, why aren't all of the high end photographers using cine glass?

    Where you run into troubles is not getting quality detail and sharpness out of stills glass. For us who are shooting motion, it is about whether or not you can keep that shot in focus with such a short throw on the focus ring.

    Joseph what most need to understand that when it comes to Lenses it is never as simple as that vs the other, NEVER.

    Still glass does indeed need to be good so to resolve imagery from, well, STILLS, yet one can not EVER really compare Still glass to Cinema glass, in depth and saying that Still is better the Cine glass, it will never be!!


    There are several reasons for this, one is of course the Build it self, and not talking about Build quality here, but about how the actual lens is build!!

    Cine glass has to overcome many more obstacles then what Still glass is originally designed for, and for this you find all kinds of Lens Defects in Still glass, much less prominent or insistent in Cine glass.

    Such as Super Color Matched Optics, NO CA, NO NO Barrel distortion, NO Focus Breathing, well, some Cine do, but the best don't, NO Light fall off thru out the entire Focus Range, which in the best Zooms is also maintained, etc.
    the list is long, and for this Cine glass is Cine glass and Still glass is Still glass.


    Can Still glass be used instead of Cine glass?

    Yes of course, but only for those on a Budget or after a particular look given by a particular lens, or for reasons of weight and size, were the image quality is not as important.

    Sharpness is only one part of the equation, the capable resolving resolution is the most limiting factor in some lenses, and Jim already pointed that out, more then once, so I don't have to go in to it here.


    So is not that Still glass is not sharp in off, is just that, it is only but good in off, and for me good in off will never cut it, not when it comes to my images, I except no compromises... IF I CAN.

    Again, its okay to use, of course, but there is a difference and it is not a small one.

    I'm surprise that Mark has gotten a FANTASTIC copy of the Canon 50mm 1.2, as I had 4 and tested against other 4 RED PRO PRIME 50mm, and my Master Prime 50mm, and the only one that was sharper was the RPP.

    But not all lenses are built equally, so it could be and I trust Mark that it was.


    But Joseph, you must be more careful in your assessments, and BTW, lots of Photographers do use Cine glass on EPIC... ;)


    What I am curious is to see how Medium Format glass will do, no big expectations, but I know for fact that will do bounds and leaps better then 35mm Still glass, but that too will never match the Cine Glass overall capacity and qualities, again, SHARPNESS been only but one element of the MAT in a GOOD LENS to produce a great image that can stand out in large prints and in a large 4k Screen.
    KETCH ROSSiF i l m m a k e r
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    I've got a set of Hasselblad medium format glass with PL :)))) ... Sharp yes, better than cine glass... maybe.... better than canon glass.... maybe....

    If talking about the glass or the lens as a whole... then master primes are by far a better lens. As pure glass goes, after my test against some of the master primes to canon glass.... I'm not sure.
    I'm trying to dig out that side by side, it's got to be on one of these cards....
    Mark Toia
    Director / DP / Founder of Zoom Film & Television

    RED DRAGON #456, RED EPIC X #612, RED EPIC X #1137

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  3. #53  
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Toia View Post
    I've got a set of Hasselblad medium format glass with PL :)))) ... Sharp yes, better than cine glass... maybe.... better than canon glass.... maybe....

    If talking about the glass or the lens as a whole... then master primes are by far a better lens. As pure glass goes, after my test against some of the master primes to canon glass.... I'm not sure.
    I'm trying to dig out that side by side, it's got to be on one of these cards....

    Hassy has had always some insane glass, but that was because of their partnerships with Zeiss on that, now days with that gone, I haven't gotten the chance to test out their new Glass,
    but I will soon in off as I test shoot a series of the Big Medium Format cameras in which the Hassy 200MS.

    But as far as medium Format glass so far what I have seen is the Leica S series glass to be by far the best of them all, can't wait to test some on the EPIC 645, or even on DRAGON... ;)
    KETCH ROSSiF i l m m a k e r
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  4. #54  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    mmmm..... DRAGON.... I hope its more than just a sensor enlargement....

    Found that 50mm comparison...
    Was almost in the trash..

    Side by side cameras, shot about 20seconds after each other.
    Notice the 50mm Canon is really like a 60mm...

    Mark Toia
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  5. #55  
    Senior Member Joseph Hutson's Avatar
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    The proof is in the pudding. Thanks Mark...
    CINEPHOTOGRAPHER | Dubai

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  6. #56  
    Visually, and that's just me, I find the MP sharper. BUT the Canon is not bad at all!!!
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  7. #57  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramesh Jai View Post
    Visually, and that's just me, I find the MP sharper. BUT the Canon is not bad at all!!!

    Just for the record, Im a Master Prime Fan. :)))

    But for a lens 1/20th the price.... (and autofocus) I think it does really well.
    The 70 -200 is the prize winner though. ZING!!!!!!
    Mark Toia
    Director / DP / Founder of Zoom Film & Television

    RED DRAGON #456, RED EPIC X #612, RED EPIC X #1137

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  8. #58  
    Senior Member Tim Lüdin's Avatar
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    I'm also totaly blown away by some of the canon and leica still lenses.
    As Mark I almost can't see a difference in certain situations.
    You would expect a much much bigger difference in image quality but it's not really there.

    Of course it's much easier to work with real cine-glass and so on but at what price difference?
    MPs cost around 6 times as much as any still glass. So are the MPs 6 times better? No way. Maybe 30% better.

    Now imagine the Redmote Pro shows up soon and does really work like it should. Dial in "focus throw" for still glass, 20 meters wireless remote, smooth motion etc. This could change the lens landscape for good. I'm pounding Jarred in any thread that comes up with this matter, because it would be that huge.

    RED would sell even more Scarlets and Epics if the REDmote Pro would solve the "focus throw" problem of the still lenses. The Birger Mount was pretty good in this regard but I think RED could make it perfect and also ship it in volumes. Birger is sleeping right now.

    So RED do this and the in brain Prores encoder and nobody and I mean nobody will come close to you again soon.

    Best
    Tim
    Tim Lüdin
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  9. #59  
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    Hi Mark, Ketch,Joseph.

    I have been reading this post and having a huge laugh. I have known the secret of using Still Lenses on Video/Film cameras with astounding results for over 15 years. When I let the cat out of the bag with JVC HD100, having a simple adapter made by Zoerk
    which allowed me to mount Nikon Lenses, a huge number of guys quickly caught on with, the best part of it was reading books
    on how they came up with this brilliant idea later. After that lesson I just keep my mouth shut and do my work.

    Incidentally Dubai is mentioned a number of times in this post where I happen to live and run a company for the last 12 years, so enjoy the place.

    And as Mark mentioned we have all made our millions and done most of the stuff within our respective fields.
    But learning never stops, LIVE,LEARN,ENJOY.

    NEVER believe you have the solution to anything, there will always be a smarter guy who
    can do it better,cheaper and faster.

    Yusuf Thakur
    VFX, Dubai
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  10. #60  
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    I echo Tim's comments on the huge desirability of extending the effective focus throw distances of still lenses using the upcoming red mote Pro. Very useful!!
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