Muroshi's scarlet design thread

[Gene Crucean]

I like the way you think Nathan. Those are my thoughts exactly.


... but lets not forget the other part of the revolution. PRICE!

[liquidigital]

If we're talking design, I love a throwback to a classic look. Hope that's what they have in store.

[Nathan Troutman]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. The biggest unanswered question for me is integrated lens or interchangeable lens?? Frankly I'm not sure which I even want - but you'd think a lens mount would be cheaper to manufacture than actually building a lens. If it is interchangeable I'd hope for 3 lens mount options: PL, and Birger's new Canon and forthcoming Nikon mounts. At least with the Nikon anyone with some old Nikon AI lenses could use them (albiet only manually) which would make good glass cheap for people to get plus you'd have access to all of the newest auto lenses to hopefully be able to control focus and zoom from the mount with the camera itself. This would give you all the run and gun advantages of an integrated lens set-up, but still give you the advantages of interchangability without the high cost of having to get PL glass. Come to think of it now I know this is exactly what I'd want. It might also give Nikon the kick in the but to release a line of new AF-S primes so we wouldn't be stuck with only zooms.

I like the way you think Nathan. Those are my thoughts exactly.


... but lets not forget the other part of the revolution. PRICE!

I can only hope RED could undercut Sony and Panasonic on price but that would put Scarlet at $6000. If they can do that Sony, Panasonic, & JVC won't have a market anymore and RED had better get a bigger manufacturing facility.

However, if you were going to spend $7000 for an EX1 I know you'll be able to find the $3000 to get a full featured Scarlet. Simply not having to build this long monster of a camera using a film adapter is worth the $3000 extra alone. It would also mean quite a few film adapters up for sale used.

[Stokestack]

Remember that the EX1 is a three-chip camera, and if the storage can sustain a decent data rate, Sony could slap a much better (and intraframe) codec into it and have a full-rez 1080P camera. At least it would seem; there may be engineering hurdles I don't know about.

Red will have to trump this with something compelling. A single 2K chip is not going to give you full 1920x1080 resolution after deBayering. It's not all about resolution, but you have to set a decent minimum target that's going to play well in the marketplace (and hopefully on big screens).

It ought to be doable, but the evident challenges of heat dissipation and data rate in a camera as big as the Red One should temper everyone's expectations.

[Nathan Troutman]

Red will have to trump this with something compelling. A single 2K chip is not going to give you full 1920x1080 resolution after deBayering. It's not all about resolution, but you have to set a decent minimum target that's going to play well in the marketplace (and hopefully on big screens).

I really can't debate you on the merits of 3 chip vs. single chip. The "revolution" of the EX1 is finally having full raster chips for once - whoo ho! I will point out that the DSLR world is not shooting with any 3 chip cameras - all single chip CMOS recording RAW. And the resolution they shoot at are the resolution they get. No one is shooting 12 megapixels to get a usable shot that is 6 megapixels. It's just that scaling down to a smaller resolution gives you an even cleaner image.

Plus don't forget the large numbers of HV20 users making great use of a single chip design. The footage is pretty impressive.

Sure Sony could use a higher data rate and better codec, but that misses the point. No matter what you do - recording to a codec still relies on packing the camera full of lots of computer horsepower and it still requires the encoding to run at real time speeds. RAW moves the processing power to your desktop where you have more time and much more power. Very smart.

[Allan Stallard]

I agree Nathan. People are missing the quality of the image is not just 4k. Redcode RAW is the revolution. The RED would be great even as a 2k camera and Scarlet will be great even if it's 720 HD! There I said it. It's about image quality NOT quantity.

I see so much junk compression in the other mentioned cameras because I do effects. The wavelet compression is awesome from RED.

I can't fit an EX1, HVX, or HV20 in my pocket...

[Andrew Hewlett]

I can't fit an EX1, HVX, or HV20 in my pocket...

I've put my HV20 in my pocket. Not saying thats a reason to call it a Pocket camera, but its the closest I've come. Can't fit HVX or DVX in my pocket...

Personally form factor means little to me as long as it can be stabilized and deliver HD progressive images in 24fps with Redcode compression at a good price. Heck, I'd buy the Iconix or the SI Mini if they were more affordable.

[M.Halsell]

My Opinion:
1) Scarlet will definitely be more camera for the money.
2) Do feel that Scarlet will compete and exploit the 1k [1080] market space. the 1080 spec was aggressively dropped for the RED ONE spec. But think it will have a new home with the Scarlet.
3) Scarlet will offer less feature choice. But the choice will be palatable to a broader buying audience and will be more amenable to producing a larger volume of camera units.
4) Interchangeable lens? (yes) (maybe)
5) Feel confident that any Scarlet footage at the appropriate resolution will cut in nicely with the RED One.

and aesthetically... we will have to wait and see.

[Nathan Buxton]

To clarify my post: "along the same lines" of the vision I had for the camera in my mind. The general design not the specific design. I like it a lot and your ideas surpassed the ones i came up with.

:D