Thread: Looking for advice on getting into the world of cinematography

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  1. #11  
    What exactly do you want to do? Tell a story, capture nice images, be the 1000-armed octopus coordinating a set, or solve new problems everyday? There are so many things that need to be done on a real set and most people are not even aware of all the different positions. So what is it you want to do?
    Since you got an Epic, it seems you like the camera operation part?
    Then take your camera and start shooting. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more.
    Offer your services to indies and no- to low budget productions, to youth-groups, students and anybody who might need it, because experience is what will get you the cool gigs later.
    Go and grab the 100 best movies and start watching them and watch them again. Look at the techniques, the light, the positions, compositions etc.
    Grab friends and family and start making movies. With or without script, with or without budget, it does not matter, as long as you shoot.

    And get your movie makers glasses on.
    I personally walk through life with several filters. When I look at people, sceneries and places (which we all do most of the day), I try to see stories, light, possible shots, etc. Not a moment goes by, when presented with a new image that my mind is not checking for possibilities on how, what, who and why something could, or could not end up in a movie.

    Be bold! You need to be a little bit crazy to do this for a living and the unexpected is expected everyday.
    Be eager to learn and to share what you have learned.
    And don't forget: SHOOT!




    The truth is that movies are just a mere hundred years old. It is such a young art-form that talking about rules seems weird. But it is one of the most prolific art-forms too. After all, it tell stories on so many levels that it can substitute for a book - even if people don't like to accept that. So there had been a great deal of trial and error in this field and if you look at professional grip equipment, it will become very clear that almost everything that is standard in the industry today, at one point was made up on the spot by movie makers.
    I usually feel like the big problem solver, the great set magician (which is more true the less budget you have). And the reason is, because we are still learning, we are still developing. We do not stop at the end of a canvas, we do not see this art-form coming to a hold anytime soon. We are all little kids telling a story and learning how to, while we do it (which is why set-experience is so crucial).
    The rest comes - at least for me - rather naturally. Yes, occasionally I think about the rule of thirds, the 180º, eye lines etc. But I find that I do it automatically even. Because it is how we look at the world through lenses and screens. It is how I see the world through my movie eyes anyhow.


    BUT - and I feel I have to include this, because it is also a truth many don't want to realize - only a fraction of the people who try this art-form (or any other) really have a talent.
    First off, most humans have NO sense for art whatsoever. Yes, they can enjoy the beauty of a pretty image, but let me tell you, that they would not know the artistic difference between a cheap scenery painting on the wall of a family restaurant and that of a Thomas Coleman, Paul Bril, Canaletto, Joseph M. W. Turner, or even Monet (BTW a good lesson to go out and check out the works great artists on how they composited, used colors and lights etc.). For most of those consuming art, it might seem to be about the same level of skill and talent. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate the great works, it just means they do not really understand the differences. For most people, there is no more obvious art involved in movies like The Third Man, Vertigo, or Blade Runner than in Transformers 3. This is why the mass market is not dominated by artistically great movies, even if some end up there nonetheless.
    And to tell you the truth, I look for very different forms of appreciation with various audiences. The masses I want to entertain, colleagues and people who understand the craft in it, I want approval from; and to the suits, I want to seem commercially useful.

    Then there is this group of people who believe they have talent and who think they can actually create, but they can't. They are often proud to show you the worst things you have ever seen and the reason they keep doing it is because nobody has either the knowledge or the heart to tell them the truth. In this forum, you will probably find a higher % of capable people then in many other places, but even here, probably only a handful is really talented to the point that they could make really great movies. And I don't try to be mean, just honest.
    Should you be one of those people, who lack the real talent, don't worry, because it does not mean at all that you can't work in this business. Even if you lack the real golden talent, you can still be great in what you do, just by having a great set of skills. Just learn to see what art is, see what skill is and how they fit together and find your own place in this machinery - and be a patron to those with great visions, be their wingman.

    Not everyone can be a director, even if it often seems like it (I hate it if people tell me it's what they want to do, as if they know what it really incorporates). There are only a few really great ones, a ton of mediocre ones and most of both these groups have a great team behind them. A director with a lousy DP will not make good cinema, a great DP with a lousy Director will make nice images nobody wants to see. and if the story is shit, it usually does not matter how good a director or DP is, the movie will not be good - which does not mean it won't sell though, as movies show us over and over again...
    There are many spots on a film team and being great in any one of them can make you just as essential a part as DP, Director or any other.


    ...what a rant, sorry about that :)


    So in short:
    Find out what you are really good at and what you want to do and just go out and do it and NEVER let anybody tell you it can not be done!
    Last edited by Patrick S. Marshall; 03-17-2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: had to iron out some grammar and bad wording. nothing major
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member brett ogden's Avatar
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    Thanks Patrick

    You got me thanking about it and i thank i want to be a Epic shooter/DP

    Thanks for being honest

    Brett Ogden
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member michael zaletel's Avatar
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    Read a lot too...

    http://www.theasc.com/blog/2010/08/3...209;-part-one/

    -Michael Zaletel
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Peter Mosiman's Avatar
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    brett, as great as being a RED shooter, it has nothing to do with being a DP.

    Learn to light man. it will put you ahead of everyone else. good lighting takes your work so many levels up.

    The best way to learn is to start reading about it, working with it on set, bribing ;) DP's/gaffers/key grips/electricians/grips, whatever, to work for free, learn the biz...it's a baller way to learn man. One of the best things I ever heard an ASC member say was that "There isn't a moment in life where you can't learn about light" - Karl Walter Lindenlaub, ASC/BVK

    I run a "lighting" blog over at gaffersunite.com you can learn some there...
    It isn't the cinematographer who owns the film, but rather the film and its story that owns the cinematographer." -- Anthony Dod Mantle, ASC
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    "Lose the ego. Do great work and take pride in it, but don’t be arrogant about how great you think you are." - Chuck Russom

    Gaffers Unite! - A blog dedicated to lighting/rigging techniques.
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  5. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Mosiman View Post
    Learn to light man. it will put you ahead of everyone else. good lighting takes your work so many levels up.
    +10
    this truly sets a great cinematographer apart from a simple camera operator.

    a good exercise is to get great movies and pick a scene and then try to light it to match. If you don't have the light, this is something to invest in, especially if you go the indie route. a DP with his own cam and his own light is gold worth in the indie, low- and no-budget world.
    if you haven't got the money to buy sets of lights (there are good and affordable sets out there), make a hobby out of the exercise above and do it once a month with rented lights - get some friends to sit in, rent a few lights and then make some tests over the weekend.

    It is not the camera, it is the light that makes the image. literally!
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Zakaree Sandberg's Avatar
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    no offense to anyone on these forums.. but head over to roger deakins forums.. or cinematography.com

    you'll be talking with dudes that have shot legit movies and are versed in all kinds of mediums..

    reduser is cool.. but seems to be mostly RED centric and tech city USA vs the art of cinematography.. nothing wrong with this.. but I'm just giving my advise as to where to go to learn and read and shit.

    lots of people getting in depth of different types of lighting scenarios, lens choice, camera choice, blocking.. so on

    Deakins is super cool because he will answer your questions..
    Mullen is way cool too, because he does this here.. he's also pretty big over in cinematography..

    just broaden your web horizons and also.. CINEMATOGRAPHY.. subscribe.. its a pretty awesome magazine and its filled with tons of information.

    and lastly.. go shoot. its hard to find something to shoot.. but even if your just testing different ways to light a scene, or anything like that.. its the best way to learn.. develop your own skills
    Zakaree Sandberg
    Zakaree@Gmail.com
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    RED MX - 1015
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Kemalettin Sert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakaree Sandberg View Post
    no offense to anyone on these forums.. but head over to roger deakins forums.. or cinematography.com

    you'll be talking with dudes that have shot legit movies and are versed in all kinds of mediums..

    reduser is cool.. but seems to be mostly RED centric and tech city USA vs the art of cinematography.. nothing wrong with this.. but I'm just giving my advise as to where to go to learn and read and shit.

    lots of people getting in depth of different types of lighting scenarios, lens choice, camera choice, blocking.. so on

    Deakins is super cool because he will answer your questions..
    Mullen is way cool too, because he does this here.. he's also pretty big over in cinematography..

    just broaden your web horizons and also.. CINEMATOGRAPHY.. subscribe.. its a pretty awesome magazine and its filled with tons of information.

    and lastly.. go shoot. its hard to find something to shoot.. but even if your just testing different ways to light a scene, or anything like that.. its the best way to learn.. develop your own skills
    +1 !!
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  8. #18  
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    take a reducation course to get the credentials to work as a DIT on some set (or a film degree in addition to this)...or buy a red and just go hunt jobs on CL, even free ones, just to shoot. keep in mind costs will add up if you need to cut and shoot your stuff, NLE, hardware, storage. its a lot cheaper to get a DSLR workflow in place then a 4k one...

    personally i took the first route, no money for the second route, i am on set right now, avids open, along with 10 scripts...should really get off this site...lol
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  9. #19  
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    Learn to light, Study art/artists that move you, become aware of composition, and work as much as you can and then some. There are so many good books that you can rent from the library or buy that contain a wealth of knowledge. I would honestly read as many as you can get your hands on. Oh and try to shoot on some film before it is gone completely, it is important to know and understand despite what some folks may tell you.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Andrew Rieger's Avatar
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    There are a number of things you can do to start learning about cinematography. For starters, start reading. Some libraries have some good books on cinematography and you can learn a great deal about lighting and composition. Second, get yourself a subscription to the ASC magazine. If it's out of your price range than read the online back issue articles: http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/archive.php

    There are a number of good forums like this site plus DVXuser and Roger Deakin's forum.

    Watch a ton of movies and be sure to watch the behind the scenes clips to see how some of the scenes were lit.

    Other than that, practice practice practice. Get yourself a cheap DSLR (GH2 is my personal recommendation) and by some used nikon primes lenses. I would also build up a set of cheap DIY lighting devices like china balls and there are plenty of online tutorials on how to light you videos on the cheap but still have it look professional.

    I am kinda in the same boat you are in so I don't have a ton of advice on actually getting a job in the field of cinematography but you could try to get a job at at rental house to get some exposure to high end equip. Try to get a job on set and work your way up the ladder, shooting music videos and short films in your free time. Finally, see if film school is an option. Its not cheap and not that easy to get into if it is one of the top schools but you will learn most of what you need to know and you will establish working relationships that will allow you to get work after you graduate. I wish you the best of luck.
    "The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle."- Stanley Kubrick.

    "Touched by a masterpiece, a person begins to hear in himself that same call of truth which prompted the artist to his creative act. When a link is established between the work and its beholder, the latter experiences a sublime, purging trauma."- Andrei Tarkovsky
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