Send good audio to RED EPIC

[Sebastian Sonzogni]

Agree with all your comments. It´s really curious that this cameras doesn´t have pro audio imputs. Also most mini HDV cameras has two XLR imputs with line level, mic level and PH 48!!!
I have to say that with the Alexa is easy to send two line signals by an XLR5.
On the first RED ONE is easy too, and you have four TA3 to send four tracks!!! What happened with the EPIC?
Sorry about my english, is not perfect...
regards to everybody and thanks again for all the info.

[Stuart English]

Agree with all your comments. It´s really curious that this cameras doesn´t have pro audio imputs. Also most mini HDV cameras has two XLR imputs with line level, mic level and PH 48!!!
I have to say that with the Alexa is easy to send two line signals by an XLR5.
On the first RED ONE is easy too, and you have four TA3 to send four tracks!!! What happened with the EPIC?
Sorry about my english, is not perfect...
regards to everybody and thanks again for all the info.

The equivalent functionality (and more) of a RED ONE is provided by the PRO I/O module... i.e. 48KHz 24-bit recording, two full size XLR connectors, microphone or line levels, analog soft limiter, 20dB+ headroom over operating level, +48V phantom power, and 4-channel AES / EBU digital audio input if you have a Sound Devices 552 or equivalent mixer with digital output.

For the camera brains, the choice is more limited because the camera is very small and space first needs to be given to the 5K sensor, ASICS etc - however an EPIC or Scarlet brain still provides two channels of 24-bit 48KHz, balanced or unbalanced microphone level audio with (soon to be available) +48V phantom power.

This is NOT equivalent to a 5D MII audio system - not even close :-)

[Scott Snare]

It will great to have the same audio quality as the Redone with the Pro IO module. Have made the decision to use the redone on projects due to the good audio on board. Necessary for many types of shoots.

[Rob Castiglione]

Sebastian. You can send out a line level signal from you 744T direct to your Epic. In the menu of the 744T you can attenuate the signal for the line level outputs upto -40db. Try about - 25 db and then adjust your signal via the pots. You dont need a separate attenuator. The sound quality was very good. For the time being turn off the limiter on the Epic. I am sure they will sort it out later but for the time being you will hear the limiter kicking in and out.

[Mark Andersen]

i got very good sound today running stereo mic set up through a SD mix pre. I had a local audio dealer make up some cables for the XLR to 1/8 mini. I got good clean sound, no hum. It wasn't a great recording environment and the mics were just OK (rode NT5) but everything worked just fine. BTW does anyone have a favorite cardioid condenser mic pair that they like for stereo xy set ups?

[Christopher Mills]

As both a sound mixer and a camera person (NOT on the same jobs, unless absolutely unavoidable), who has worked with Red One and Epic, I note that the onboard audio of neither is as good as can be recorded elsewhere.
I do try to make sure to get a reference signal to the camera, but this is intended for "dailies" or "offline" use, with a second system sound recording used as a deliverable.

With both cameras, I have been using a wireless hop (usually a sennheiser g2, sometimes a lectrosonics digital hybrid link).

On the Epic, I consider the x A box to be a very reliable interface, which I think has resistors in line to help match the line signal to the form that the plugs on an Epic and Scarlet use on the camera. Their mini pins are wired in a non-universal way... and it's a crapshoot as to whether your basic xlr-3.5mm cable is appropriately wired... it is indeed possible to find some that do work, but the A-Box is ergonomically better for most camera operators to deal with.

On Red One, the Red mini to standard xlr cables work fine..

However.... Recording to a camera directly is best suited for documentary production of two track audio.
If you are recording drama, with multiple characters, or with challenging audio environments, then use an actual sound recording package and tools..
and synchronize in post..

To do otherwise is the sonic equivalent of shooting your picture on the RED, but only using the HD output from your videotap to finish your project's image...

You are leaving opportunities for better quality signal to noise, isolation and sound finish out of your deliverables..

[Scott Brown]

Hi Guys

First off, I'm NOT a sound specialist and always bring in dedicated sound people whenever possible, however I do on occasion need to handle audio personally. I'll be using a Sound Devices 302 mixer which will connect to our Epic via a x A Box.

Can any audio pros give me pointers on how to milk the very best sound out of this when connecting to the Epic? I gather switching off Epic's audio limiter is a good starting point?

Help and tips greatly appreciated.

Best wishes

Scott

[Lonny Danler]

Double system is of course the professional way to do it, but I've been working to get some usable audio on the Epic as well for dailies, etc... I found that a -50db pad (cause there's lots of head room on the Epic settings) I had put in some xlr to mini jack cables at Coffey Sound in LA helps turn the mic to line level since Epic only handles mic input. Yes, limiter off and beware of running the xlr audio in cable over other power sources/stingers. Not ideal, but can be acceptable from time to time.

[Christopher Mills]

EDIT:
Try lavs hardwired to the 302, mic level cable out to A-box..
send test tone at -20db
record test tone... set levels while listening to the tone..
try to set the tone at just below 50% scale of meter on camera LCD...
if you dont see the meter lines moving when you have dialog, you are not recording..
consider at least running a Tascam dr7 or dr8 plugged into the 1/8" output (i think its a tape out) from the 302 as a backup..
use a clapper style slate if you do record double system.
If you can not lav your actors, use a hypercardioid mic instead of a shotgun and get it as close as you possibly can.. it will reject more fan noise than the shotgun mic would..

GOOD LUCK!

[LEON J-L]

Still, while waiting for Pro i/o module and even when available it is highly necessary to use a line level input on the brain alone, could you do that ?
it is not an issue of space in the brain. I just come from a concert where they could only feed us with line level and I was vey annoyed