The cost of 4k laser projection. Speculation Red Laser Price.

[Patrick Tresch]

Great!

Please don't make it proprietary (R3D was a pain in the ass to post-produce during 2 years).

Bring it on RED! ;-)

Pat

[Jose Lomeña]

Fantastic price, i want one!

[Wayne Morellini]

Timing can, as I said, can correct x axis jitter.
Y axis can NOT be compensated for with timing, because the beam is simply in the wrong place in Y. You have only one chance and the stupid beam is too high or too low.
So the microvision is out. Using a piezo or galvo to correct is no longer using the microvision as a base.
There are plenty of engineers who think up ideas for amazing products on paper,but avoid 'going there' for the things that in the back of their minds are known complications. Those things burst the bubble, but then the fantasy idea dissolves into the ether and they have nothing.
Saying there is a gulf of difference is an easy way out. Have you built anything that works off paper that is this complex ? Just wondering/calibrating ....

My apologies Les, I am often sick and misread what you were talking about, I thought you were getting to another solution, but the timing is good enough start. Actually the mv is not out, you are not looking at it right :-) You also are not getting where I'm coming from, I do months worth of working out 'complications' and new methods in a session. I can't speak for you, but you can speak for yourself, not me. You definitely are on the wrong track, inability to work out reality is what causes these things, I usually fleece out non workers really quickly on the fly, it is evident at a glance a whole series of problems, weights of efficiencies and performance, design avenues etc. I get insight instantly, and even every second branching structures of working out. However, the biggest problems for the average person, getting stuck in what they know rather than working out what they don't. One implements or slowly refines what is known, the other explores new design. Problem is, not many people even know a lot (I mean, a lot) to do even that. As I said, for yourself, not for me. I deliberately don't think about things, as I instantly see problems and solutions and can spend all day long refining a series of problems (which I think I have only tried to do maybe once, as there are other things to do in life) a whole series of products, all variations for the whole timeline of product development to the most efficient versions, one after the other, when well. The problem is that most things become rationally irrelevant to do, as there are a number of more important things and you can not do everything, plus being sick is not helping anything without assistance. I am also able to rationally debate leading people while very sick (slows down systematuc thinking hundreds to one, and difficult to the level I usually employ). I regularly get people entering the fray and thinking they are right because the solution is conventionally a no goer or limited, but not further ahead to the solutions. I am validated, because a number of my solutions get rediscovered and developed years afterwards, often to lesser degree. The whole process is based on knowledge of course, I may have aspergers systematic and self organising thinking, tourrettes low latent inhibition type thinking (flood of related ideas) and a uniquely well trained skill in using it and working them together, but it all depends on knowledge to rationally work things out, even though you can make some deductive leaps to fill in gaps. I can train most people how to do this, but most people are not interested in too much beyond themselves etc (ignoring=ignorant). So, I am not as one dimensional as you may assume.

The MV solution is by no means ideal (my old version uses additional technologies/techniques that should stabilise, increase precision and precision, but I would have to review their exact design to compare)) but there are much better ways I am interested in.

Sorry this reply has taken so long, been in hospital, had a accidental confrontation with a snake, he must had lightly got me, feel unusually sicker today for some reason.

[Wayne Morellini]

The goal has always been 4K 3d laser for $10K. Let's see how we do...

Jim

Jim, that is a totally fantastic price for a cinema version, how much for a home version :-) ?

Thanks anyway, I hope you can go high volume, currently there are more conventional 1024*768 laser projectors.

Don't worry about the discussion here, I actually know what the solution is. It is one thing to question because you don't know, another to know.

[Wayne Morellini]

Les, I have reviewed my previous posts, and should have pointed out I have used an 'existing' low relative jitter device, not talking about my design work. The solution is out there, already. For this general sector, I have a much better solution, if anybody is interested in investing. I forgot, I can laterally jigsaw technologies together and have some knowledge from years of keeping up with what was out there on the technical side.

[Patrick Grossien]

The goal has always been 4K 3d laser for $10K. Let's see how we do...

Jim

hehehe, this sounds as if it were very telling! pretty excited to see "how low you can go" ;)

[Wayne Morellini]

Yes, yes, 4k, for $4k as somebody said ;) (or 8k). Actually, why not just skip the 4k revolution and do 8k, the cinemas will have a cheaper orojectir that does not need to be replaced (even I Max), and light show people will have something too? 8k smoother lines?

[Jeremy Torrie]

So in theory Red Projector combined with RedRay Pro...20,000 to have a 4K Playback device and the film projected in 4K? That would shatter the 2K barrier for sure, and likely upset a number of exhibitors with bought Sony SXRDs...but oh well -someone's gotta pay for their R&D!

[Wayne Morellini]

People keep talking about R&D mistakenly, it is all about volume. $100 million R&D (in tidays terns) to make it really big for instance, to invent the laser, video, 4k and other things from scratch, first in history, genuises behind it that fast track everything in right direction, and refine them to this standard, plus set up production lines included for 1930's 4k laser projector (note in real world most of this is already done to reuse in your product, so maybe a million down to $100,000 R&D to do revolutionary laser projector, home version).

Well, with this imaginary $100million R&D cost, how do you get rid of it. If you manufacture 10,000 units the cost per unit for just the few stated items, is $10,000, so you want to charge $100,000 (in today's terms) for your 1930's 4k laser projector (no cinema coding used, home version also used on cinema) and that is all you can sell in those times. But if you produce a hundred million, then guess what, you cost per prpjector is now $1 in those terms, and if actual manufacture and distribution chain costs are low enough (the increase volume can drastically bring manufacturing side down) you can sell it for $2000 at a profit. Guess what, at $2000, with a suitable screen also reduced because of volume, you can sell $100 million.

Now let's translate the above back to a more real world figure of a million dollers R&D, leaving out production lines, for home version only. Over 10,000 units that is $100 a unit, over a million that is $1 a unit, 100,000 $10 a unit. So R&D can be high with a cheap retail price if volume is high enough. So, if you aim for 10,000 sales that is $100 a unit, production IP and parts may bring this up to $1000-$2000 for everything (assuming they can get their parts at goid price and manufacture third world). A laser prohector should cost littlevmire than an overly inflated lowcost normal 1080p projector, that should cost less than your $500 1080p TV set. So, the only justification for the extra $9-8k is if it is going through a distribution channel that need their cut. Economics 101. However, going to 100k units is scary, as if it flops in sales you have a lot of extra upfront costs to wear. However, it should have a drastic affect on costs, lets say parts and manufacture come down to $500-1000 dollers now (again presumming that they can get good volume pricing for parts and third world manufacture). Now you an sell it for $5k, but you must have a distribution network to sell in these volumes past the theater and production industry. This maybe as much ir more than any modern video projector sells, but Red offers so much more than even a new 4k TV, not so much less like a normal overpriced mechanism.

If course, the big factor here is the projector mechanism they use, I can do it cheaply, but it also can be done very expensively resulting in custom sensor/dmd like production costs. Such a complex beast of a mechanism puts a dent in the costs of production setup, manufacture, R&D etc. I am of course, presuming cheaper 'safe' lasers in the home version. Now you come back to 10,000 $10,000 projectors without a consumer distribution network, $6k would be pushing it, $4k probably not on. So 20k-50k units is probably the sweet spot to get it to $5k direct with limited consumer distribution in capitals etc.

However, if Jim would like to sell it down to $5k special for Red user members, I would be interested.

Hope the projector is 8k, with custom port card slot to take new 8k connection standard when available.

[Jon Jones]

10k for the RED 4k projector?? That would be awesome, I fully expected and was ready to pay 30k for it. I just figured it was going to be the same price as the EPIC.