It begins, rumors of 4k camera challengers.

[Shane Betts]

Considering the amount of stuff still broadcast at SD resolution on today's HD monitors, I can't see there will need to be a huge rush on 4K cameras to fuel 4k screens. This stuff is always driven by the retailers, who pressure manufacturers to give them another format with margin in it as the last one is now selling so cheap there's no profit to be made. The limitation on broadcast will not be the cameras but things like vision switchers, same as it was in the early days of HD. Every network bought HDCams and Varicams but there were relatively few full HD switchers around which proved the weakest link in the chain. Perhaps now that BMD have entered the mixer/switcher market they could adapt to 4k faster and cheaper than happened with HD but it's still going to be the limitation for broadcast IMHO. How many cheap 4k vision mixers/switchers, routers etc are we being promised?

On these proposed new cameras, I'm sure there will be a raft of them at NAB and I'm just as sure most of them will deliver crap - if 4k crap instead of 1080 crap. I've seen people rate Scarlet below the C300. Really? 4k, 16bit RAW vs 1080 8 bit, Long GOP?

And yes Gunleik, enough of the fast. What I wanna see is ISO range downwards to 50 or 25 ISO. Gimme my electronic Kodachrome!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I want dynamic range on both ends. I think being able to shoot 2 stops cleaner in the shadows would do it for me. MX is pretty noisy for some scenarios even at 360* shutter. I can always ND, it's a lot harder to de-ND. :D

[Les Dittert]

Very true.
So let the fun begin with 4k image comparisons. Forget the chatter about 1920x1080.
red herring

LOL. Scarlet @2k vs 5D MIII is a real funny idea for a comparison...

[Jeffrey Loewe]

The Sony rumors are leading to some pretty impressive frame rates even if at 2K or 1080.

[Jannard]

I'm quite sure all these new cameras will be upgradeable as technology advances... :-)

Jim

[Gunleik Groven]

I'm quite sure all these new cameras will be upgradeable as technology advances... :-)

Jim

Hahahahaha!

Sony DID upgrade the F3 offer when the C300 and Scarlet came out the doors.
Like it or not, those 3 cams are now the main contestants for the former HVX-200/DSLR segment.
Price and current features will be deciding factors for the buyer, and a I worl a bit in broadcast, I have learned that the most data, upgradability and flexibility are not allways the deciding factors.

I hope Canon has some firmware upgrade plan for the C300, too - from the little I have used it so far... But I'll wait commenting too much on that until I have used it a bit more.

RED is the king of the hill, but it is for us out here to give people workable workflows that feels simple for productiontypes that would otherwise shoot DSLR/F3/C300 and don't have the budget for or wish for a raw workflow - and those are a few..

It is doable, though - if you add a rocket to the pricepoint.

[Evan Starkey]

I'm quite sure all these new cameras will be upgradeable as technology advances... :-)

Jim

Love it...the fact that everyones talking other cameras here and you dont care speaks volumes :)

[Detlev Eller]

... LOVE, the secret ingredient, is hard to be reverse engineered & manufactured .... i guess, it´s in the genetics ...

:-)

[Jeremy Torrie]

I can see how NAB might be written this year as the year of 4K or what have with all these cameras and such being announced, but somehow I think JJ & co are probably going to nod & smile, then announce Dragon specs and probably other goodies that will be both upgradeable and blow away current 4K, even by Red's standards. I've seen and read enough of Jim to know he's not content to just let everyone catch up -he will push that envelope, throw down the gauntlet, and we will be the beneficiaries of that.

[Wayne Morellini]

Basically I expect these lower end "4k" cameras to finally produce a decent 1080p. Kinda like the 1080 cams should have done all along. But no way are these gonna compare to 12-16-bit raw.

And the winner is..to reply to so many other posts.

While the real world may work on actual quantifiable figures, the world of marketing, spin, and actual sales works on perception, emotion, support, brand loyality etc. They will string us along, size up enough to at least marginalise Red while preserving their future slow market expansion and low cheap technology production, WE ARE IN THE 8K TECHNOLOGY ERA, as Jim well knows. We are still waiting for that 8k camera, we have the approx 8k still cell phone.

So the reality, is that they will offer non raw 8 bit, long gop, and people will say, wow, look what 'Canon/Sony' is offering us. Just because it is from a trusted/known/liked conoany they will go for it, a number get emotional about their favorite brand (like around here) blinded, confused by shinny things. These things are just not shiny enough to confuse me. On the flip side, these items are enough to do work, and conveniently without extra workflow steps, popular with many in the real world.

I'm quite sure all these new cameras will be upgradeable as technology advances... :-)

Jim

Yep, upgrade the sensor with the next $2k camera to replace the camera that had enough features for the owner, eventually they will likely get a good camera, maybe much worse than the new best of the new day.

"There! Let's see if you can out shoot the 5D now you Scarlet!"

That's hilarious, says it all, cut off your camera's design's arms and legs, and then go it against the Red Knight :-) .