RED MX IMAGES APPEAR BETTER THAN SCARLET-X

[Stelios Kokotos]

We've shot 3 projects using both the RED MX and the Scarlet-X, interchanging the same lenses between the cameras as required. I must say that to my eye the RED MX is producing consistently less noisy, 'smoother' looking images than the Scarlet-X when evaluated on a 2k monitor. The Scarlet-X is set up to match the settings of the RED MX, but the RED MX just seems to produce higher quality images.

Has anyone else noticed this difference? I read in earlier post that the RED MX and EPICS have the 'A' grade sensors but I didn't expect the difference to be that noticeable when compared to the Scarlet-X (especially with respect to the noise level).

[Stelios Kokotos]

Oops...double posted. Please ignore this post.

[Rob Ruffo]

I have noticed. With Red One you pay in weight and long start up times (and also price - body only is $25 000) but you get amazing quality. 4K 16:9 (which Scarlet can't do) looks way better than 4K HD on a Scarlet, and even 4K HD on One MX is cleaner than same on Scarlet.

Megabyte for megabyte, I've also noticed that the compression on Red One MX is better than Epic. You have to pay a lot more in data on a Epic to get the same freedom from artifacts.

[Gabe Conroy]

Are you sure it's not just that the Red One is compressing the footage more? More compression suppresses noise, less compression lets it through.

[Niko Pueringer]

Post some stills, because the images should be identical...

[Erich Ocean]

Post some stills, because the images should be identical...

Well, that's clearly not right– at the very least, the A/D conversion and bit depth are different. Sensor is just one part of the overall equation between light entering the camera and bits being written down to storage. No one should be surprised they look different, but it is surprising (to me at least) that the Scarlet is noisier, since usually noise levels get lower on newer camera designs, not higher.

Has anyone noticed this with the Epic? I know the boards are different between Scarlet/Epic, so perhaps the Epic has lower noise/better AD converters vs. the Scarlet?

[Carmine Scalzi]

I'm starting to think every Scarlet is different then the other ones. I mean we know we're talking about stuff not good enough to become epic hardware, so in this case we'll get Scarlet with different issues. I'm saying this 'cause there are some Scarlet with issues and other ones without issues. Some Scarlet is noisier then a minidv (:)) and other ones got other bugs like lack of sharpness and stuff like that. (of course I know the big part of the Scarlets don't have any problem, I'm talking about the issues I'm reading in here in the forum) Mine, for instance, is clear, sharp, without any kind of noise - of course I'm lighting the scene as it should be (if U want a film look, U have to light as film) and downscaling in fullhd or 2k the image is even sharper and clear. I used to work with different cameras, and I've seen the images coming from all of 'em, like the fs100, the c300, the epic, the alexa, etc., and it seems to me that my Scarlet got a bigger value over all of 'em... maybe it's something about the experiences of anyone using the camera that make judge it different (minusvalue) then as it should be - I'm talking in general :). The red one mx got wonderful image coming from, I know, I worked with it, but I can't judge some minor quality issue with the scarlet, maybe the opposite.
But, I'll repeat, maybe this is just my lucky case, maybe my Scarlet is a lucky one, I really don't know.

[Gunleik Groven]

Hm.. I've done side-by side Epic og R1 MX tests. The Epic runs in circles around the R1 in all those. The R1 may appear cleaner "out of the box" due to RedGamma which really crushes the black and presses out the highlights, but that does not equal a less noisy image or better fidelity...


So far I think reds reasoning for not letting RG2 into the R1MX, seems very smart and valid. As valid as it was to let RG2 and now 3 be available on the Epic/Scarlet...

[Stelios Kokotos]

I am guessing that the EPIC-X cameras will probably have the A-grade sensors as will the RED MX cameras. I'm just curious as to what the quality difference (noise, latitude, etc) is expected to be between the A-grade sensors used in the RED MX and the EPIC-X and those that are used in the Scarlet-X, as I am noticing difference in the cameras we use.

I don't think the noise between the MX and Scarlet-X is due to the differences in the gamma being used. In the source settings or REDCINE you are able to set the footage of both cameras to equivalent gammas, etc, as this is just metadata. The RED MX (at least in the footage from the cameras we use) has an apparent quality difference to the Scarlet-X. At ISO 800 the RED MX is incredibly noise free whereas the Scarlet-X has visible noise. It seems that one would need to expose the Scarlet-X as much as a stop more (or lower the ISO) to match the noise level of the RED MX.

Again this is based on my personal observation on a 2K monitor.

[Alexandre Desjardins]

According to Graeme from RED, the sensor is the same, only the processors are slower... And I shot as well on RED One MX and on my Scarlet X, not side by side testing, but I don't "feel" that the Scarlet is noisier.

Each and every camera gets a high quality sensor. Just because you buy a Scarlet doesn't mean your sensor is any less worthy than if you bought an Epic.

What is different on the Scarlet is the processing speed of the ASICs. That limits functionality (high fps, high redcode), not sensor image quality.

Graeme