Everything changes...

[Andrew M.]

Andrew, isn't what you are proposing the same as a lease?

Much less expensive than lease. Lease on the broadcast or cine equipment is cost prohibitive if you need it all the time. Even comparing it to the car lease is expensive that usually runs for about 3 years or so.

Here we are talking 5 years (20%) Service contract. Theoretically impossible proposition for manufacture of the high tech 3 years shelve life equipment. So why I think it is possible?

Well because of modularity. Cameras as oppose to current architecture of the computers are lending itself to modular approach.
When we move to the next generation of the camera we already keep the lenses, don’t we.
With RED we keep EVF, batteries, all mounting hardware etc.

Having sensor and GPU together in a small box that could be also autonomous for basic configuration is simply genius. Having fully configured camera in Pro version on 20% free upgrade annual contract would be the first in this industry.

Especially if the brain inside would have factory upgradable architecture.
Like EPIC-X converted to Dragon or RED-1 upgraded to MX option.

So far looking on average upgrade from RED-1 to MX-to EPIC-X to Dragon looks to me like 20%/year expense anyway, and all this without any contract.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I have invested heavily in RED (equipment) and I feel very safe about that - *the future´s so bright, I gotta wear shades!

*Timbuk 3

[RayFrisby]

Sounds like the Dragon is on the way, maybe even this year or shortly after NAB.
If so the price point will prob stay the same with an upgrade price offered for current owners.

It will be interesting to see if Red can lower the entry price of the existing Scarlet to closer to 10-12K for a shooting package.
If Red can manage to offer the current Scarlet Kit (without lens) for 10-12K then I think they will still have the upper hand. By Kit I mean a;

Scarlet Body with PL or Canon Mount etc.., Charger and two batteries, Base Plate, Side Handle, Monitor, 64GB SSD and 1.8" Offload Station.

If Red can lower the price of the Scarlet Kit then they should be able to beat Sony, Canon, JVC, and Pansaonic 4K cameras in a price and features fight.
In the current climate I think price will be the deciding factor in the lower budget /indi (Scarlet) 4K camera market.

edit:

IMO if Red also lowered the price of their power (redvolts and chargers/modules) and media (SSD) options for the Scarlet / Epic it would help.

Budget wise after camera and lens these are the two most important (basic) items needed to build a camera system.
If Red makes the cost of getting off the ground with a Scarlet attractive then those with only 7-8K to spend will save and aim for a 10-12K Camera
that offers great stills and 4k quality as well as affordable power and media options.
Red can always charge more for the higher end accessories, but first make getting off the ground attractive to buyers.
My 2 Cents

[Will Wernick]

I don't see them lowering prices any time soon. I think Scarlet (accessories included) is a steal compared to anything else on the market.

[patrickortman]

I read a few posts about how people think RED needs a $10-$12K all-in package, probably the existing Scarlet-X, with upgrade to Dragon options for existing (and new) X customers.

Kinda surprised there's not a bigger "Shut the fuck up! I just dropped $20K on my Scarlet package!" backlash around the web to that idea. Maybe everybody's busy shooting stuff with their Scarlet-Xs?

But the idea is intriguing. Things are changing in this space, and quickly. If RED is going to continue to kick ass, things will indeed continue to change. And maybe pricing and product strategy are part of that. Not just whizzy cool new stuff. I don't have any idea what RED's plans are, but I can say that every time in the last 3.X years I've read Jim talk about "change", it's not just been "Here's some cotton candy and Red Bull! For FREE!" (although often that's part of it). Change can be painful, and difficult. Mostly, change means keep an open mind, and roll with it.

So, hmm, NAB could be anything- we'll see!

[Adam Johnson]

I just hope the Dragon upgrade path for Scarlet isn't an arm and a leg, considering they will have to core out the insides and re-arrange boards :-/

[RayFrisby]

At the end of the day companies are in business to make profit, if people are not buying your products in the quantities
needed to make a profit then something has to give.
Either you reduce your costs, offer new must have features, or lower your price.

From what I can see (I could be way off here) advances in technology will not be the key factor in purchases during 2012.
4K is here to stay, and will become the standard over the next 5 years, but (IMO) the demand is not there
for 6 or 8K technology (at the moment)

Until this recession lifts I really believe sustainability will be about costs and price; and has been for the last few years.
Some companies are not going to survive this recession or will be vastly changed by it.
This year Panasonic announced 10 billion losses. No company can sustain losses like these
in the log term, something has to give.

I think were going to see a lot of changes over the next few years, (IMO) Red has to become
indispensable and adopted en-mass by every Broadcast Station, Post House and Film Set/ Photo
Shoot in the world, and have the hardware required to do this before any large scale Red
workflow adoption can take place.

edit:

For what it's worth I believe the lack of a Red-Deck has cost Red a lot in terms of sales and mass adoption.
Even if Red was to make a small profit or subsidise a unit like the one mentioned below it would more than make up for it in
the number of users and large scale adoption of Red Cameras and R3D workflow.

In my opinion Red needs to produce a stand-alone Red Rocket / Deck with built in
1.8" and 2.5" SSD Drive bays and CF reader with an internal Raid hard dive, with all current
connections including 3G SDI with Audio, Dual Thunderbolt, HDMI, USB, Firewire 800 and
ethernet port.
With a built in proxy module for different codecs and wireless streaming
it could also output in different codecs or stream directly to the internet.
If Red produces such a deck then any CF Card or SSD must be automatically
readable by both Mac and PC, so users can give SSD's and CF Cards directly to the end user.

If the unit could connect to Desktops and Laptops it could
export finished projects directly from the internal hard drive to
current decks such as HD CAM -D5 -DigiBeta etc... or export footage in
different codecs or stream directly to the web, as well as transcoding,
and monitoring output on film sets and other situations.

It would also act as a stand-alone player / ssd offload unit,
with built in export settings for different decks,
meaning it could be used with or without a computer.

The RED ROCKET / RED DECK would also fit into current Broadcast and Post Workflows as well
as Film festivals or other situations.

My 2 Cents

[Shapour Daneshmand]

IN JIM WE TRUST!

[William Robinette]

Maybe everybody's busy shooting stuff with their Scarlet-Xs?

Yes.

And so far no other company has been able to put out a camera that records 4K 16 bit raw without any sort of external recorder that all fits in the palm of your hand. In that way, I don't see Scarlet as having any direct competition whatsoever.

[TJ Hellmuth]

Jim's comments are what I love most about Red, and I can see the company continuously honing in on this amazing flexible system that covers all bases through modularity. And reduser is certainly the place to learn about all of it. I have one quick note on this though, and I'm sure its been addressed before, so please educate me. I'm curious why the Pro Version of Redcine X is not easily found on the support page. I do know its still beta, but so many DIT's are downloading the lated release build totally unaware of the fact that 12 more builds have happened since release built 506 because they don't read the forums every day. Those pro builds not only contain some of my favorite advances in the program, but inspire many DIT's to suddenly love the program that previously wasn't as user friendly. A major threshold in accessibility was crossed with the pro builds, and I'm curious why skilled educated professionals are frequently not finding this amazing (beta) tool in the obvious place - red.com/support.