NAB new announcements...

[Lee Saxon]

There is much less difference between a computer now and 3 years ago than a computer 3 years ago and 6.

Definitely true. Remember how often you needed a new computer in the mid-90s? Now I feel comfortable skipping a few generations. When I bought a GTX 470 last year, it was to replace a 7800 GTX from about '04.

I think things are slowing down a little with image sensor tech. I placed an order for a D2x to replace my D1x the INSTANT B&H started taking them. But I'll be comfortable waiting for supply to catch up with demand and first-adopter prices to drop a bit before I replace my D700 with a D4.

Still haven't reached that point where I'll skip a generation, though.

[davidtorres]

Always learning in my profession as cinematographer but now with Red this process is almost magic, I enjoy a lot the art to tell true the images .... Here in Las Vegas Redy to the action at 5k at 3:1 ( or perhaps bigger tonigh, will see )

[Ryan Fitzgerald]

By the way, the American cinema has always been more interesting when made by foreigners (Germans like Lang, Lubitch, Europeans, or Italians, etc...) I think it's time now to see movies made by Afro-Americans, Mexicans, etc... the ones who can't afford your great and so expensive gear. The ones most of the cinema business usually completely ignores.

Just a tad racist, don't you think? You really think that all Afro-Americans and Mexicans can't afford to purchase a RED camera? I mean, its 2012. I wasn't aware that people still thought like this. Maybe you should focus on leaning about human equality before you start worrying about technological equality in filmmaking? I'm sorry to add to your roast that's going on here but, I mean, WOW.

[Felipe Leite]

Some places good for filming, some places - for mining, it depends... :) Here in Vancouver we doing quite well for last several years. Ironically most of your clients from US, California to be precise :)))

Yeah, I was there in 2010 for a TV spot, Jeff Cronenweth was the DP. It was great to be there with him and his brother. I also took my bike to Vancouver and went for a bike ride at. Mt. Seymour. What a great city.

[Adrian Lopez]

I think there are enough bad things shot in 4K now. It's about time that camera makers release affordable 4K cameras so we'll be able to more interesting things, made by more interesting people than the usual WASPs. By the way, the American cinema has always been more interesting when made by foreigners (Germans like Lang, Lubitch, Europeans, or Italians, etc...) I think it's time now to see movies made by Afro-Americans, Mexicans, etc... the ones who can't afford your great and so expensive gear. The ones most of the cinema business usually completely ignores.

Wow.. really??!! Afro-Americans, Mexicans who cant afford the gear? I had to re-read that post a few times....

[Trevor Meeks]

Just a tad racist, don't you think? You really think that all Afro-Americans and Mexicans can't afford to purchase a RED camera? I mean, its 2012. I wasn't aware that people still thought like this. Maybe you should focus on leaning about human equality before you start worrying about technological equality in filmmaking? I'm sorry to add to your roast that's going on here but, I mean, WOW.

Wow.. really??!! Afro-Americans, Mexicans who cant afford the gear? I had to re-read that post a few times....

Well, I suppose we could point out that she's french... go figure.

[paulherrin]

No, that's not what I really meant, but if you like to film your dogs, that's fine with me, as long as you don't want me to watch. The problem isn't all those people making money shooting shit work like music videos, commercials, specs, wedding tuff, etc... It's a living, I respect that, there aren't a lot of interesting artists on Reduser anyway. The problem is more with the fact that it pollutes the atmosphere preventing the more interesting forms of art (feature/short films, docs, experimental,...) , which are more valuable to be shot with such top gear like Red's, in my opinion. But sure, it won't fund your gear.

I think there are enough bad things shot in 4K now. It's about time that camera makers release affordable 4K cameras so we'll be able to more interesting things, made by more interesting people than the usual WASPs. By the way, the American cinema has always been more interesting when made by foreigners (Germans like Lang, Lubitch, Europeans, or Italians, etc...) I think it's time now to see movies made by Afro-Americans, Mexicans, etc... the ones who can't afford your great and so expensive gear. The ones most of the cinema business usually completely ignores.

Kristin

PS : I had high hopes, when Jim started his company, that, at last, someone would understand this need shared by a lot of people. I thought that if someone could, it would be him. I understand that a private compny needs to make money, and the realease of the Red One then the Epic is a good choice, but the abondon of the Scarlet 2/3" or the idea of an affordable 4K camera is just a betrayal.

Does that mean that only the rich can have access to the 4K future ?

Kristin... :)

sorry you're taking a lot of flak :/ you do bring up some good ideas, just try to keep it cool... and positive :) i get the same attitude some days. i can appreciate your frustrating position... if you want to borrow me or my camera for something meaningful and awesome, (we'd love to come visit) - me and silver are here for you... cool?

from the perspective of what would be good for our culture, and cinema - yeah i think it would be good if 4k was more accessible. but that doesn't mean it makes sense financially... that's just how it is. the problem there is a lot bigger than a camera company... it's the way our society is structured. and in fact, red is one of the most considerate and purposeful companies i've ever known about... jim's obviously not trying to get rich off of this... he genuinely wants to make things better. in any case, 4k cinema actually is now more affordable than ever. folks can rent these things that never could before, even if they can't buy it. and honestly, i've seen a lot of good movies shot on dslr's... which is as cheap as it gets. you don't need 4k to make a story stand out. as awesome as i think it is, it's really not that important. but it is awesome. :)

4k is a wise decision for professional work moving forward. not at all necessary for beginning filmmakers to visualize their ideas... but if they can get their hands on one, hey - all the better. just don't forget what it's all about.

[Peter Moretti]

In fact, when you look at the prices, all the announcements, be they Red or Sony/Canon/etc... are disappointing... unless you live in the fourth dimension, ie you're a big pro doing shitty commercials/Hollywood porn/etc... I guess none of these camera makers will soon give what most indy filmmakers are waiting for, a $6000 DSLR 4K camera. It will happen, but when ? All these companies are just protecting their high-profile clients, Red included.

The saddest thing about all that, is just when you look at the footage these F65/Epic/Alexa owners are doing. Just a pain for the soul, as I like to say. I can't believe that some dads are filming their kids with an Epic and, furthermore, are so proud to showcase it on the Shot on Red section ;-)

Rant over ;-)


Kristin

I hate to say it, but I think this is the biggest crock of you know what. NO ONE DESERVES A 4K CAMERA. And no one needs a 4K camera to make a beautiful movie. I saw "Like Crazy," and it looked lovely. It was shot on a DSLR and had two name actors in it, Anton Yelchin and Jennifer Lawrence. But a DSLR isn't good enough for YOU? What's so special and in need of theatrical release future-proofing about YOUR projects? Enlighten me.

Ever heard of a movie called "Secretariat?" It's effing beautiful and it was shot in 1080P w/ a Genesis. How about the Alexa, which Roger Deakins loves? It records 1080P too. I guess you NEED a camera with higher resolution than Deakins does. Give me a break!

Red is already insanely cheaper than all of these cameras. Sacrlet is cheaper than most *recorders* for the Alexa and Sony CineAlta cams. And what happens when you get your 4K for $4K camera? Are you going to post on Western Digital's website that hard drives are too expensive? Or HP b/c DreamColor displays are too costly? Or Adobe b/c CS? will still probably cost over a grand? How about sound? Maybe Senheiser should sell MKH-60's for $200, and Sound Devices their recorders for the price of a Zoom? Why not bitch out and try to quilt Zeiss into selling cine lenses for the price of a M4/3rd's kit lens. I mean really, if you want to make film worthy of 4k, you're going to need all of these.

[Jiri Bakala]

Ha. I kind of anticipated this reaction. Like I said, I'm not arguing for or against any camera or any format... Just playing devils advocate and pointing out the problem for those people that say you *need* RAW for digital cinema. That's simply not true, no matter how much you think it is (it's like saying that a movie has to be shot on film to be considered a real movie.)

It's more wants vs needs (and it seems I'm the only one that recognizes that everyone is going to be different). It's also a matter cost and maxing (or balancing) features vs. $$. Personally, I'd be satisfied with a 4k s35 24p/30p camera that gave you the option to record either RAW or 422 with ~13stops, so long as it was ~$5000-7500 ready to shoot (cheap media too) and had decent low-light performance and XLR-in. Above and beyond that there is a huge grey area (for me.) I'd love FF35... not willing to pay triple for it though. I'd love properly downscaled 2k/1080 of the entire sensor, but not willing to pay for it. Love 120+ fps, not sure I'd be willing to pay triple for it though...

I know that sounds like it's impossible to deliver at $5000-7500, but I guess I'm spoiled by what Scarlet/5Dmk3/FS100/FS700/C300 offer between $3000-15,000 price range. The hard part is that, personally, I don't care for all the bells and whistles, but I do want all the top-end digital cinema functionality (e.g. 4k and RAW at 24p are needs, high speed frame rates and HDRx are wants that I'd prefer were excluded if it could drive the price down... apparently it wouldn't.)

Also, as I said in my previous post, I think the C300 is massively overpriced for what you get, but I recognize the fact that some shooting requires the easiest operating solution (and baked-in is objectively easier.)

Thanks Mike.

For some on this board it will always be "my way or the highway" = in translation: either you get a Red or go get a bottom of the line video camera. Nope, none of the other cinema style cameras are any good and if you are not with us you must be against us.

Like you, I think the principles and philosophies of Red are awesome - but there are markets and types of productions that are well served by any number of the other cameras you listed. There are many parameters that each individual user has to take into account and that's how we all make decisions. Unlike many here who had to sell their car or admittedly spent time to "save up" pennies to get their prized Scarlet, others just get the camera they need now and when a suitable project comes that requires the specific abilities that (in this case) one of the Red cameras can deliver, they go and get it then. Plain and simple.

Also, at the peril of being attacked, for some - including myself - it was also the reliability issues and other parameters like the lack of XLR audio with Phantom power that might mean "joining the Red revolution" just a bit later, once these have been dealt with. Which I am sure they will, in time.

There, I said it - fire! :)

[Trevor Meeks]

There's no lack of XLR audio... get the A-Box from x. Phantom will come... firmware updates are free and beat the shit out of any firmware update canon, sony, arri, etc have ever released...

If that's what's been keeping you from buying a RED, I believe your problem is solved. Enjoy your new camera.