Laser 4K projector using Panavision 3D filters

[Jonathan McGuire]

I know RED stays ahead of the game so I'm sure they are aware of the technology, that being said I would love to see them incorporate Omega/Panavision filters into the upcoming 3D projector. This is my first post an I have no experience with RED products but I have experimented a good bit with passive 3D projection. Polarization is not the way to go for passive 3D, even the best silver screens lose polarity and cause ghosting and they are not suited well for 2D. Polarizing filters also age over time and I would think that would be much quicker with a laser light source. Omega is already offering a kit on ebay for $350 that includes the same filters Runco uses in their 200K dual projection unit. The kit is great and a few members on AVS are already testing it with different stacks of projectors between $2000 and $10000. What we need now is someone to build a projector similar to the LG passive 3D (basically two projectors built into one with a single lens), allowing the user to remotely insert the filters into the light path for an easy transition from 2D-3D and eliminating the headache of constantly aligning two separate projectors into one image. Again, the people at RED are likely way ahead of me on this, I even assume they are after hearing that the highlight of the projector is its way of doing 3D. If anyone from RED is interested the designer of the Panavision filters is active in the passive 3D discussion on AVSforums and is looking to work with a company to incorporate the filters into a passive projector. Motorman45 is the guy to talk to over there. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...280393&page=53

[Vico Martin]

Wow, very interesting forum, thanks for the input Jonathan and welcome.

Vico.

[Jonathan McGuire]

Two other things I missed, right now dual projection seems to be one of the few ways of doing 3D that allows each eye to see a constant image (The LG does this but agian uses polarization and there is a Sony 4k projector that displays 1080p images top and bottom then uses an external lens to split and recombine those into a single image) By showing both images constantly to each eye you reduce the chances of any headaches or other negative side effects of 3D that arise with active systems. Even though Dolby and RealD are not active they also have the same issue of not providing each eye with a constant image since Dolby uses a rotating wheel and RealD uses a modulator. This is why some people have turned to dual projection for the best 3D experience, the problem is that many 3D films are not 16:9 format and using two A-Lens for scope films not only cost a good bit but also makes aligning the projectors even more difficult....

Maybe I am setting my expectations high but this is what I am hoping for. Two laser light sources matched to Panavision filters (these filters work by separating the light spectrum that each eye sees). 3D input that can take the source and work as a demultiplexer, splitting the L and R frames so that they can both be processed and have creative frame interpolation for each eye. Combine constant projected images out of a single lens, allowing us to use an A-Lens for an immersive 3D experience. This would eliminate the need for a silver screen, allow both eyes to see constant left and right images, and even make it possible to display two different sources on a single screen. The viewers would still need glasses, but two people could actually watch two different movies at the same time (sound is another issue but headphones could always work)

[Aaron Fritz]

I have the omega system and it is fantastic. No need for silver screens and can already use what I have. I have done several ghosting test and the system passed no visible ghosting.

[Les Dittert]

lasers are monochromatic, the filters won't work in the case of lasers.

[Jonathan McGuire]

lasers are monochromatic, the filters won't work in the case of lasers.

I honestly don't know enough about the filter tech to say if you are right or wrong, here is a post from the guy who designed the filters though and I feel like it can be done when the whole projector is designed for it to work... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21900636

[Ben Price]

Im the engineer behind the omega 3d / panavision 3d. lasers could work with the filter system depending on a few things. we have been looking at lasers coming into projection technology and have looked for someone as a parner to develop something new and better. the omega 3D filtering system is designed around xenon and other broad spectrum sources but it dose not mean that multiple monochromatic sources and some customising of band locations/count/width and peak attenuation could not be done. in fact or ability to coat not only highly complex multiband DWDM type filters but also deposit a version of this on a curved eye piece and control the CWL across the part are some of our many specialties.
I have nearly 30 years of optical system design that covers almost everything these systems utilize. lasers especially and the optics they use. anyone interested in ideas contact me or discuss it here. i love a challenge.

[Stacey Spears]

Ben,

Did you interact with Nicholas Grieco? I assume so. Too bad what is being sold is not what you actually developed as it was much better.

[Ben Price]

Yes i did. he was a key part of development and a great technical mind, i miss working with him. you are right in that what was and i mean Was being sold as P3D was not the final result of development. Nicholas helped in so many ways and was the only other technical mind on the project besides myself thatreally understood what we were doing. we were closing in on 20% efficency calibrated to DCI spec where Dolby was 12%. we had total extiction, perfect energy and chromatic balance without a color correction server
i have been sceptical of laser systems becuase of metameric failure. the Kodak system can suffer from that as well. the eye is a broad spectrum sensor that functions best on a broad spectrum light source. i would actually prefer a source to be an array of high output LED's grouped spectrally into RGB with a full compliment of wavelegnths not just three

[Ben Price]

if the RED 4K Laser projector uses an external light source then why could you not use alternative light sources ??? it seems easy actually. you could use a box with 100- 120 lumen LED's or a xenon lamp or whatever as well as the laser head. now it depends on the design of the beam splitters in the light engine also but if they are designed to work with different sources than the Omega 3D filter technology would fit right in for a given source... I just need help with a better frame for the eyewear :-p