RED One MX or Scarlet X?

[Jason Rudd]

To clarify, my point was that there was an opinion in some former thread here (I can't find it now), where 4K from a Red One MX was superior to 4K from the Scarlet. I believe the Scarlet was being used as a B camera to similar or the same monitors. Anyways, I'd like to see raw files as a comparison between the two cameras shot at 4K / 24 fps. I've shot with a R1 MX before, and I own a Scarlet, but never shot with both at the same time.

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I notice some subtleties being discussed here - the devil is indeed in the details.

My perspective: the (used by well treated) R1MX is the better choice than the (new) Scarlet. Now, I don't work in the movie or TV industries. And I don't own a RED camera. But from the outside looking in, here is why I suggest the R1MX over the Scarlet (some points repeated from other comments):

1. Frame rate

2. Audio (apparently)

3. CF card compatibility (although for maximum reliability you shouldn't shoot at maximum frame rate - I think the max at 2K should be 107fps?)

4. Cost - a complete, used, R1MX kit is cheaper than a new Scarlet body.

5. You can have a second R1MX body for not much more (redundancy is more important than specification)

Disadvantages may not matter that much. The R1 is not a DSMC. But you are shooting motion, and, I presume, nothing but motion. You don't care that you can't fit the thing in your shirt pocket. Sure, you can do 5K stills on the Scarlet, but you aren't getting 24fps at that resolution, let alone 48fps. ISO? Well, yes, the Scarlet is better. Possibly better native DR, too (and HDRx is currently useless for motion). And as for 6K: you can't have it now and you certainly can't have it before EPIC owners.

You know what? ISO aside, a used R1MX is even better value than a new Canon 1DC (or even a used one which will happen eventually). Better resolution, better frame rate, better codec. I'd even prefer the R1MX to the 500C.

All IMHO, FWIW.

[Gunleik Groven]

I have and still pull stills from R1 footy. Works well...

[Mike Hechanova]

For me, the comparison between the two is kind of pointless, in terms of image-producing capabilities. I'd be happy shooting on either. Ofcourse, one needs to consider each cameras pros/cons many have already listed.

From a business standpoint, I will say in my market, I have yet to be inquired upon by a potential client who expresses the desire for their production to be shot on Scarlet. That's just my experience. I was booked with RED ONE just last week and booking it for two jobs this coming month. Almost never fails, size matters to clients. Even as long as EPIC has been out, clients just aren't wowed. To them, it seems more nifty than WOW. Just so damn small; it only impresses us camera nerds. Most importantly, as evident in the mix of opinions on this thread and others, ONE-MX has very comparable image quality with some operational plus and minuses when compared to Scarlet.

If you were in a similar market, I'd say a used-RED ONE-MX can possibly yield greater returns if you are an owner operator / DP-with-cam kinda business. With the used buy-in being so cheap, its really a no-brainer... at least for me, which is why I opted for stage 2 and do not plan on selling the ONE-MX. It's more valuable as a working camera than uber-marked-down, used sale. I'm sure there are many owner/ops making a living with their Scarlet package, but I wonder if they have a tough time selling their clients on it? You hear stories about EPIC having a tough time as it is, and that's the big bro.

That said, many jobs let me choose so when I can, I choose EPIC more often than not, but this is thread is about scarlet and redone-MX.

[John Waldorff]

>R1= Better performance in general, access to cheap media via hard drives which have never failed us, not once.

But Red Drives are not available anymore.. is there any alternative?
Thanks.

[Tom Greenberg]

SSD Module is available for R1...we use a combination of SSD and RED Drives (which are readily available in the used market).

[Sean Talbott]

What a tremendous amount of responses. A year has passed since starting the thread, I'd like to hear new opinions, now taking into consideration all the changes with scarlet being upgradeable, and the RED ONE MX falling even further in price. Thanks all, I appreciate you taking the time, as I am still debating to this day which route to go.

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I've reviewed the replies and it seems that apart from technical opinions, Bob Gruen's advice seems the most valuable: "If being an owner/operator/DOP is the course you want to take I'd suggest looking at Atlanta." Atlanta or not, his point about LA's saturation seems valid to me. I have no reason to doubt what he's saying.

My opinion was that an R1MX is the better camera per dollar. Especially now. Can you afford an EPIC now? If so, go for it. But I don't completely know what your situation is, professionally and financially. Whichever camera you buy, you can always claim RED experience.

[Vithya Sharma]

R1= Better performance in general, access to cheap media via hard drives which have never failed us, not once. R1s are still used on some high-end sets. R1 has wider field of view (4K:16:9 is more field of view and more resolution than 4K:HD) and many totally useable slo-mo modes.
Scarlet = lighter camera - thats' the only advantage really, until Dragon comes, and price for Dragon upgrade for Scarlet will be more than $6000, we don;t yet know the exact price

r1 perceived as battle-tested reliable high-end camera by clients
Scarlet perceived as "junior version" and "student version" of Epic (hey don;t blast me, I am only reporting what I hear). You could not show up to a top-budget prod with a Scarlet except as a b-cam. AN r1, still, and maybe forever, yes. Many Hollywood prods have used R1s and Epics, NONE have used Scarlets as their main cam as they just rent an Epic- thus how perception is created.

Yep.. 100% correct ... and Scarlet use for Wedding, music videos shortfilms etc...


REDONE BETTER

Thank you

[Troy Bakewell]

I'll chime in here since I now own both cameras.

Bottom line, depends. IMO it especially depends on what kind of deal you can get on a used R1. Overall I prefer the Scarlet, but it really depends on your needs. Here's a breakdown of the pros/cons the way I see it.

R1 advantages:

Rock Solid with less concern for overheating and fan noise. Also I'd rather take a R1 into a dirty environment any day.
Better frame rates and 4.5k widescreen is awesome. I wouldn't be surprised to see this added to the Scarlet via firmware in the future eventually.
Much better audio!
Available Birger Mount!

IMO the media issue is silly because if I were going the R1 route I'd go with a SSD.

Scarlet Advantages.

Smaller and lighter.
Upgrade-able
Better resale as time goes on IMO
Interchangeable mounts! (This is huge IMO)
Much faster boot!
1080 out via SDI which is awesome when combined with an Atomos or PIX.
Much better GUI
Not "end of life"

IMO the Scarlet wins overall but it all depends on your needs.

Just my $0.02