New Mac Pro line anytime soon?

[Carter Cammack]

Ivy Bridge CPUs are out, available for order as of today. Maybe this was the holdup.
Curious what GPU they will offer in their PRO line, if there is one. They've always gone with ATI/AMD in the past.
Everyone seems to want the Quadro, but they're getting stale now, and due for an upgrade also.

[Steve Sherrick]

Jeff, I agree with you on a lot of points but the one thing I do question with Apple right now is their ultra secretive policies when it comes to professional level tools. I'm not saying they have to do what RED used to do and announce things way in advance when it's just in the idea stage, I'm speaking about giving professionals who use their systems more of a heads up. FCP X was misplayed, no matter how much PR repair has gone on. I speak to many people who decided to jump ship and felt like Apple went too far in their approach. By not addressing the Mac Pro status up until now, they have once again left people questioning what their next move is. From a PR standpoint, could they not come out and say enough to give their loyal customers some peace of mind. For example, a simple statement to the effect of: "We are not killing the Mac Pro, but we are designing a new professional Mac from the ground up and we feel our professional customers will be very happy when it is revealed." This statement tells us nothing in terms of specs but it allows the collective professional community to breathe a sigh of relief. Same thing could have happened with FCP X. "We are introducing FCP X which we consider a monumental advance in editing software but we acknowledge that for some there will need to be a transition phase and therefore we will continue to support FCP 7 until we feel that transition is happening smoothly. For our customers who are new to editing, we believe you will jump right in and love what we have done".

Apple is on top of the mountain but there is some fog up there. If they are not sure about what they are going to do with Mac Pro (which I don't believe) then that was resolved a while back in my opinion because they have to be in a position right now where they are moving forward with it or have scrapped it. So, rather than leaving people hanging, I do think they need to address this soon. There are too many options for people these days. If they get frustrated enough, they will drop Apple just like many have done with the NLE situation. Apple can have their cake and eat it too by giving people just enough information to keep them loyal.

If this approach continues, I fear Apple will become irrelevant in certain sectors of the professional market. I guess we'll see how they play their hand. If I was running Apple, i'd want to control the whole content game, from creation to distribution, from professionals to consumers. But who knows, maybe their numbers don't support that theory.

Anyway, I'm still an Apple guy but I have to admit, even I'm getting antsy. :-)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Ivy Bridge CPUs are out, available for order as of today. Maybe this was the holdup.
Curious what GPU they will offer in their PRO line, if there is one. They've always gone with ATI/AMD in the past.
Everyone seems to want the Quadro, but they're getting stale now, and due for an upgrade also.

The Ivy Bridge CPUs that just released are those targeted for the low-to-mid range desktop systems, quad-core, small cache. Intel's Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 series shipped on March 30th, so it's new. For the first time in 2 years, we're now seeing new Xeon workstation offerings from HP, Dell, etc.. Unfortunately we don't know where Apple stands on this issue and there's a lot of wild speculation and bogus rumors out there.

@Steve, while I do agree to some extent with the secrecy concerns. This is Apple. I don't see them changing this policy. Look what HP did. They were Jonny On The Spot on March 30th, announcing the new Z-series workstation line-up using the E5 CPUs. Then about 2 weeks later, they started taking orders with systems set to start shipping on the 19th. Only a few have trickled out due to unknown issues. This is HP and they can't get the parts to fulfill system orders and ship product. Dell only announced their systems a week ago and are not yet taking orders. Those are supposed to start shipping by the end of May and they have already stated that quantities will be limited. Doesn't surprise me that, assuming Apple has a system to offer, that they wouldn't say anything just yet.

[Steve Sherrick]

The Ivy Bridge CPUs that just released are those targeted for the low-to-mid range desktop systems, quad-core, small cache. Intel's Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 series shipped on March 30th, so it's new. For the first time in 2 years, we're now seeing new Xeon workstation offerings from HP, Dell, etc.. Unfortunately we don't know where Apple stands on this issue and there's a lot of wild speculation and bogus rumors out there.

@Steve, while I do agree to some extent with the secrecy concerns. This is Apple. I don't see them changing this policy. Look what HP did. They were Jonny On The Spot on March 30th, announcing the new Z-series workstation line-up using the E5 CPUs. Then about 2 weeks later, they started taking orders with systems set to start shipping on the 19th. Only a few have trickled out due to unknown issues. This is HP and they can't get the parts to fulfill system orders and ship product. Dell only announced their systems a week ago and are not yet taking orders. Those are supposed to start shipping by the end of May and they have already stated that quantities will be limited. Doesn't surprise me that, assuming Apple has a system to offer, that they wouldn't say anything just yet.

The thing is, I'm not expecting Apple to announce specs or delivery dates. That's never been in their DNA, even before they exploded in recent years. A simple statement saying they are still in the game is all that's needed. Everything else can be left to secrecy. I know they like to announce product and have it shipping quickly. But they shouldn't screw people over on this one. Give them some heads up. Have one of their journalist buddies make the announcement if they want to. Short, sweet, and not too revealing. Job done, move on to the real work. :-)

[Clay Glendenning]

Tremendous thanks for your input here Jeff. I think the collective professional Mac users are really exhausted of the whole affair. Your insight is extremely helpful, especially regarding the reality of Thunderbolt. I've been researching Thunderbolt, as its real capability was a deciding factor in how I am going to effectively expand a company, and it is really difficult to wade through the BS. I was impressed at NAB, but after further reflection, it just isn't the jack of all trades I hoped for. No fault there on anyone, and I think it will benefit a softer professional market.

I'll keep a Mac around, and to be honest the non-professional line like the MacBook air and new iPad are quality products I use for business and am pleased with. However, the 2008 Mac Pro I am currently typing this message with is going to retire. I'll either sell it or re-purpose it for freelancers. Most of the important upgrades were intended to work well in a PC transition, which I recognized might be needed a few years ago. I may make a Hackintosh compatible PC build, and I'll keep my costs offset/low. I really hope Apple comes out swinging again for professionals and blows my mind.

[Mike Halper]

Ivy Bridge CPUs are out, available for order as of today. Maybe this was the holdup.
Curious what GPU they will offer in their PRO line, if there is one. They've always gone with ATI/AMD in the past.
Everyone seems to want the Quadro, but they're getting stale now, and due for an upgrade also.

Not always. Recently yes, but in the past Nvidia was at least an option and in some models was the default. It's been a while though.

[Subhadip Sen]

Unfortunately, Intel has made a right mess of Sandy Bridge-EP and even till date are struggling to satisfy promised supply. SB-EP was supposed to release in Q4 2011 but was delayed by 6 months due to chipset woes and yield issues. The first instance of the die released as Sandy Bridge-E or Core i7 39xx with 2 cores disabled. SB-EP is far and away the largest die Intel has ever produced for this market - clocking in at 435 mm2. Compare this to Bloomfield and Gulftown which were ~240 and ~260 respectively. It is so large that it can almost be passed off for an EX chip (i.e. Xeon E7). Thanks to the delays, 3 of Intel's largest fabs have already transitioned to 22nm powering Ivy Bridge, which has several times the volume. 32nm is well on its way out and pushing out massive 435 mm2 dies on a dying process is a pretty major issue. Hence, there simply is not enough supply. Intel are struggling to meet demand.

Back to the Mac Pro, much of the blame lies with Intel. As to when a new Mac Pro will ship, that's a different can of worms... I understand the need for secrecy.

I have always believed that it is never wise sitting and waiting around for "the next best thing" in the tech world when you have to get your work done. The only exception is when a product has been announced, shipping within 30 days and you have an upcoming project weeks after that that will benefit from the upgrade. Go for the best solution out there today, one that will let you get your work done as efficiently as possible. In my opinion, speaking from a purely rational perspective, being dictated by a walled garden - any walled garden - is simply not the best option for productivity, and I have learned this the hard way. Sure, Mac Pro may be "good enough", but there are far more powerful and/or cost effective solutions outside the walled garden which guarantee a timely upgrade path. Always has been and always will be. Particularly now that graphics cards are essential for our work. It will help you get your work done faster, save you money and finally lead to a better product. Of course, your emotional needs must be satisfied first - if you are deeply unhappy without an Apple product, then your work simply won't be worthwhile. On the other hand, if you feel you have no emotional connection to your tools, go ahead and check out the options, choice is always a good thing.

[L. Langer]

Not always. Recently yes, but in the past Nvidia was at least an option and in some models was the default. It's been a while though.

It will probably be AMD given that they and Apple are spooning closely together with OpenCL development, which is what both companies are backing and investing in, but they may go both ways since Nvidia supports OpenCL too. Even current Intel GPUs can run OpenCL well, so who knows what Apple will put across their product lines.

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

After doing some more research, I agree with Jeff. A new expandable Xeon-based Mac will probably arrive in the late summer/early autumn, maybe earlier, with the "Ivy Bridge"-based Xeon's. In the mean time I'll buy a second hand 2010 Westmere based Mac Pro, or maybe 2009 Nehalm version. In some bench-mark tests the 2009 dual 2.93 ghz quad-core MacPro seems to have the upper edge (on all models minus the 12 core).

Thoughts?

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

Puntervold is a happy camper. 8 core 2.4 ghz westmere: 2 800 USD.