Thread: Will the new BlackMagic Camera affect 4K sales.

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  1. #11  
    Senior Member PatrickFaith's Avatar
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    I see it as a huge training ground for digital RAW, something the VDSLR scene (and the c300, etc ... ) doesn't have. The more people that understand the importance of RAW, the better it will be for RED - and for movie making in general. I still am amazed how often people don't "get" raw - there's almost a generational gap ... the old film guys get raw, the young computer generation gets raw ... but their is this mass of "tape" guys in between that just don't want to understand raw.
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  2. #12  
    Did anybody notice that you only get about 30 minutes of raw on a 256gb ssd? To me that means most people are going to be shooting to the other codecs, as that's pretty hefty data for only 2.5k, but you can get 10x that in prores for example. Also the main reason I probably won't het one is the screen might be nearly impossible to see in day exterior and then you're in the same boat as dslr adding a bunch of wonky accessories to make it work.

    I just don't know if needing a terabyte for every 2 hours shot is very practical for indie and low budget use. Really shows the value of redcode.

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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Les Dittert's Avatar
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    Many will transcode to Cineform RAW at speeds faster than you could have copied off the DNG's from to SSD to a normal hard drive. 5:1 easy savings in storage.

    Increasing RAW awareness for the unwashed DSLR masses will boost RED sales from filter up. I'm glad Nikon and Canon are going to get slammed with reality. 'Bout time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Sutherland View Post
    Did anybody notice that you only get about 30 minutes of raw on a 256gb ssd? To me that means most people are going to be shooting to the other codecs, as that's pretty hefty data for only 2.5k, but you can get 10x that in prores for example. Also the main reason I probably won't het one is the screen might be nearly impossible to see in day exterior and then you're in the same boat as dslr adding a bunch of wonky accessories to make it work.

    I just don't know if needing a terabyte for every 2 hours shot is very practical for indie and low budget use. Really shows the value of redcode.

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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Sutherland View Post
    ...you're in the same boat as dslr adding a bunch of wonky accessories to make it work.

    I just don't know if needing a terabyte for every 2 hours shot is very practical for indie and low budget use. Really shows the value of redcode.

    Tim
    I wouldn't buy RED cameras if it wasn't for redcode. Honestly, it just wouldn't be a RED camera if it only shot ProRes/dnxhd. That's why RED hasn't made a RED branded proxy module. It's not their philosophy and other players in the market take care of it too Pix/Ninja/Samurai. I don't think BMD's camera will affect RED sales. Two totally different markets. The 2.5k camera is somewhat of an intermediate between the T3i/60D/7D/5D market and full blown 4k raw. That's great, except that for me at least, there isn't a pressing need for something to go in the middle of that market. To each their own, I'm sure there's a lot of people who are really interested in that cam. I'm happy with red :)
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    I'm going to buy the BMD Cinema Camera.

    Its not a Red.

    Its roughly comparable to a Scarlet at 3K. Both cameras have a similar sensor area.

    Scarlet shoots 48fps RAW and can crop the sensor to give even faster frame rates ... but really its a marginal advantage. Especially if BMD delivers faster frame rates, as they have said they want to do.

    (And really ... they could realistically deliver 60fps at 2.5K with CinemaDNG)

    Now, even if I owned the two Epics I am saving for ... I'd still buy this camera!

    First off, it comes with a license of Resolve! It also includes UltraScope software ... which may well work with other BMD i/o devices, and that possibility is exciting! That means its really priced around $1500 for the camera. Its super incredible at that price point.

    Leaving that aside, it certainly kicks the tail of any real or proposed DSLR for video work. This camera can definitely replace my 7D for almost everything I use that camera for. The main exception is that I use the 7D as a finder on 4K Red (and other S35 like Alexa) shoots. Also stills are still much nicer on the 7D. Only the 1DC has a feature that outperforms the BMD Cinema ... and at that price point just get a Scarlet!

    So. I'm still a Red man ... but if anything I feel the BMD camera cements the plan I already have to just skip Scarlet and go straight for Epic , which is really the camera I always wanted. (I'll probably get Dragon ... because it will be free with my $50k+ kit, but the original Epic specs are just fine.)

    Coming to the question asked by the OP ... all of this is why I don't think the BMD camera will affect 4K or Red.

    This will be one of the nicest 2K/1080p camera options available at any price, despite its limitations.

    It won't affect 4K because it doesn't shoot 4K, and 4K is inexorable. It will come.

    I do think the next version of the BMD Cinema Camera will be VERY interesting, and you can pretty much bet there will be a next version.

    I'd bet on an even simpler camera with an S35 sensor and the same recording options, but with compressed 4K ProRes and DNxHD. I expect we'll see the 12 bit 4444 version of ProRes for 4K. BMD may license Cineform, or develop their own RAW codec.

    It will end up looking a lot like a Scarlet does today ... but they'll release it when its much more cost effective. Scarlet was bleeding edge when announced... today its on the leading edge of "economy" 4K ... in a year or two it will be on the trailing edge of 4K technology, and that's when you'll see the BMD 4K camera ... when BMD can sell it for $5000 at most, which means building it out of commodity components.

    In the meantime, I am going to enjoy the hell out of playing with this thing! I can afford to take it out to play on things I could never justify taking a Red out of the bag for.

    Oh ... what this camera will definitely do is improve acceptance of RAW! That can only help Red.

    RAW is a very easy workflow right now, as opposed to a few years ago. This camera will give loads of film makers experience with that. Red will be different ... but it will be details of a process film makers know, and thus a lot easier to deal with.

    Ultimately this camera will be good for Red.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayFrisby View Post
    But I believe it is valid to ask
    Seeing that Jim and the Red team have done so much to develop a 3-5K (dollar) camera i.e. the 2/3 Scarlet
    Is it crazy to think they may resurrect a lower priced version of the Scarlet with an optional Pro Res/ DNxHD Recording option ?
    It may make sense if the figures add up and they can get it to market soon !!!!
    If anything, this development reinforces their commitment to NOT do a 3-5K dollar camera. RED likes to standout, not be part of the crowd.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    There is one glaring problem with this camera, although I know it's got a solution. The internal battery is estimated to last 90 minutes based on BM spec sheet. Two hours to charge it when the camera is not in use. In other words, you pretty much won't be using the internal battery for real shoots. So, you have to use a 4-pin solution which means you are adding cost and bulk to your setup. Not saying this will prevent people from shooting with it, but I do wonder if this is a bit of a design flaw. Imagine if they had incorporated the Canon battery system, of which many people own tons of batteries that would have been an easy transfer of resources and saved a lot of people money.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    Imagine if they had incorporated the Canon battery system, of which many people own tons of batteries that would have been an easy transfer of resources and saved a lot of people money.
    I have to wonder if Canon would be willing to license that to a disruptive competitor.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Bob Gundu's Avatar
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    You have to license a battery system???

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Crawley View Post
    I have to wonder if Canon would be willing to license that to a disruptive competitor.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Crawley View Post
    I have to wonder if Canon would be willing to license that to a disruptive competitor.
    I'm not sure what the licensing entails but i do know that other companies have taken advantage of that system such as SmallHD. And there are several companies that make replacement batteries for that system.

    Quote Originally Posted by RayFrisby View Post
    Steve it seems Blackmagic are also working on a seperate handle for the camera with power and control features,
    reports point to something that can be mounted on different rigs and configurations. Not sure if this is true but it
    would make sense and is prob something they have borrowed from Red.
    That would be interesting. The power and the audio are two areas I'm very curious to see in action. I'm also hoping for expanded lens mounting systems. This BM camera would be for very specific purposes, so won't affect how I use REDs that's for sure.
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