Challenge to Zacuto...

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hmm, strong words. Market forces, loyalties, form factor, personal preferences, reliability, accessories, marketing. Neither right nor wrong, just a plain and simple reality. Good luck changing that status.

Yes Jiri,

strong words indeed, I believe that one should be voicing opinions strongly and loudly, I in fact agree with you, but nonetheless I stand to make a change as far as I can, with the power of my voice, my words, my work, and well, my facilities once they are open, and trust and remember my words when I said that I would make people see the difference.

If they then choose to change for the better or not will always be up to the individual, but at list there will be an other strong voice amidst, which they can compare to the highly advertised ones which does not deliver half of what it should, yet it is chosen over RED EPIC because of misconception, high paid advertisements, marketing campaigns with dealers and rental houses and so on.

RED has achieved all that has at a global scale in the Major Film Industry with ZERO of all of that, been the recent VOGUE spread the first ADVERTISEMENT RED gas ever done, that is the true power to me, yet I wish people would see it more clearly, why?

BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY LOVE MOVIES!!

Yet I enjoy viewing them in the best format possible, 10 years ago was SD, 5 years ago was HD, few years ago was 2k, today is 4k, and it will be more so as we go in the the future... So I wish to enjoy all my favorite movies form all my Directors colleagues in 4K, and not cry out that I wish they were done in 4k and not in 1080p, which by then I'll bee looking at them in a 100' screen or even in a small 100" TV in 4k and they will look washed out, stretched out, just not glorious at all as a MOVIE should be IMO, that is all... ;)

[Louis Maddalena]

Last years Zacuto Shoot out really bothered me because in most tests they used an external recorder for the cameras. That gave a leg up for some cameras where their codec was weak but their SDI stream was strong. This though hurt RED. The R3D is the magic of RED and not using it in a test instantly makes the camera not stand up as well because its missing its greatest asset.

[Jiri Bakala]

Sorry if the sarcasm was too hard to see on that one. BUT, what I wrote in that post is what most people are saying in these boards about people who finish 2K.

The funniest thing is that 99% of the people who whine about Zacuto finishing the test in 2K actually finish their own films/clips in 2K. Hypocrites, someone would say.

Accepted.... :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I want to do a shootout between distribution of 4k and 2k. But I don't want anyone told before they go in. 100 people in a 2k theater and 100 people in a 4k theater. Then I want a little questionaire on image quality, sharpness etc. I would be very interested to see if the 4k theater gets any extra points for quality. The best, most vibrant, sharp image I saw at NAB this year was a Pioneer 1080p plasma.

[Scott Crawley]

But a Corvette and an F1 are designed to do essentially different things. Racing is highly specialized. Making films for movie theater exhibition as of now is not, even though you could argue that the top machines employed are similarly specialized. We basically have two flavors; IMAX and...? Is 2k actually dominant right now I don't know the numbers.

So it is a fair argument that we have a choice of two tracks, and one of them is going to yield an advantge for some competitors. Do you run the F1 on an oval, or the 'Vette on a grand Prix track? What factors do you consider when you make that choice? How valid will the result be?

The Cars 2 analogy is actually better; NASCAR v. F1 :-)

Oh well, we have a new kind of race...

You take a Corvette and a Formula One, and you limit the top speed to 150 mph and 450 hp...

New method of comparing...

New...to say the least...


Antoine

[Jance Allen]

... The best, most vibrant, sharp image I saw at NAB this year was a Pioneer 1080p plasma.

I'm just curious if you saw the Canon 4k theater presentation. I was really surprised and impressed! 1080p really does suffer by comparison, which was clear in the slow-mo shots in that 4k piece, as well as the following 1080p shorts. I thought the Red Loom 3d short looked great, but I wish Red also had just a 4k 2d showreel to show off 4k material at 4k.

[Scott Crawley]

I want to do a shootout between distribution of 4k and 2k. But I don't want anyone told before they go in. 100 people in a 2k theater and 100 people in a 4k theater. Then I want a little questionaire on image quality, sharpness etc. I would be very interested to see if the 4k theater gets any extra points for quality. The best, most vibrant, sharp image I saw at NAB this year was a Pioneer 1080p plasma.

Comparing a 1080 plasma on a trade show floor to a 40-60' 4k image in a theatre is a lot like comparing a 5k camera and an HD camera, no? There needs to be a framework for comparison and I'm not sure one exists.

FUBAR, the entire discussion is FUBAR.

[Josh Beadle]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...l=1#post997902

[Phil Holland]

Reading through all 10 pages of this discussion, I feel something needs to be brought into the equation.

Something that should be noted, perhaps a bit outside of this test and what it's all about, is where exactly we are with motion picture technology.

Right now and for a while 1080p will be a standard capture format and delivery format.

However, the industry is advancing and evolving at an accelerated pace. We are looking at a time when theater owners need to stay competitive and have an edge on broadcast outlets. There is a fully immersive experience waiting for viewers at the theater when images are projected at 4k in 3D or 2D. 4k is already at theaters and will saturate more and more. 4k will be coming to homes and will come down in price just as 1080p displays were once did. Without any doubt in my mind the industry's current intentions are focused on a 4k delivery standard. It is the future of motion picture entertainment.

We are in a time of growth. We're going to see a lot of camera manufacturers releasing different cameras in the next 2-3 years as they hone in on what works and what doesn't. I saw a lot of what doesn't and a few "almosts" at NAB 2012. Today there are more camera choices than ever at a large variety of price points. Red did digital 4k acquisition first and they did it right. Now they've built on that. They don't make "economy cameras", but they do make great "race-cameras" built for the motion picture professional.

If you feel like I feel about the beauty that can be held within a frame you likely don't ever want to shoot in anything less than 4k from here on out. The same can be said for the power of raw capture and the post workflow. For me, it's a dream come true.

Red is not hype. They currently make the highest quality digital motion picture cameras on the market. The post workflow is simpler than many believe. Misinformation and misconception are the enemy of all camera manufacturers. Many direct a lot of energy towards Red to diminish what exactly their cameras can actually do in the right hands. But, as many of us here actually know, in the right hands they can do amazing wonderful things. Red Epic in particular represents a vision of bringing a digital motion picture camera to market that is literally (in my mind at least) an alternative to motion picture film cameras. Compared to the Super 35mm cameras and processing, the Red DSMC form factor and post workflow is about 100% more desirable. It's also more time and cost effective. This is why Red has penetrated the market so deeply in the world of feature films in particular.

The Zacuto test will be interesting. In reality, it's a test that can be done in a day or two at a major rental house. It's actually a test that has been done by many working professionals already. I don't even know how many I've shot over the years for Directors, DPs, and studios. There is extreme validity to doing these camera tests. Finding out what cameras can and can't do is important. Every DP should know the advantages and disadvantages of their equipment. I fully agree with Jim that there should be a 4k finish involved with this test.

I will say this crazed mindset that "my camera is better than your camera" is such a strange concept. For those that occupy their minds on statements like that I often find that there should be a little more focus on what's in the frame and not what's in the camera. It's okay to get excited about technology. It's even okay to prefer a brand. I'm a camera nerd too. But I'm only a camera nerd to serve the purpose of the captured frame.

[Steve Sherrick]

I will say this crazed mindset that "my camera is better than your camera" is such a strange concept. For those that occupy their minds on statements like that I often find that there should be a little more focus on what's in the frame and not what's in the camera. It's okay to get excited about technology. It's even okay to prefer a brand. I'm a camera nerd too. But I'm only a camera nerd to serve the purpose of the captured frame.

I agree 100%.