Challenge to Zacuto...

[Josh Snyder]

Crap at 5K is still crap - I know because I haven't gotten any more talented since I purchased my Epic.

That was seriously funny line. Good job.

[Paul Schneider]

Steve you're dead wrong . . . I would take a paper cut for RED but that's about my limit for any manufacturer ; )

Funny...and true.
Vendors are only viable as long as they make viable products.

[Paul Schneider]

Steve... without a 4K test there is no interest on our part. Do Indie filmmakers ever hope that their films will be shown on the big screen? If so, and since 4K delivery is here, why would you not want to include this in your tests? Are we just talking about You Tube delivery? Everyone needs to know what their footage looks like for all possible presentations... at least that is the way we think.

We have disagreed about this from the beginning. If you want to constrain your testing to "what used to be the standard"... we have no interest.

Additionally... if 4K is not here, why have so many companies announced a 4K camera? We are not alone...

Jim

Passive agressive commentary on forums is not how two prominent and successful industry leaders should air their laundry.

Get on the phone and work it out like the pros you are. Maybe there can be a 4K screening somewhere?

REDUSER is an amazing resource for all kinds of valuable information. The back and forth taunting and gaming is a turnoff.

[Josh Snyder]

Steve... without a 4K test there is no interest on our part. Do Indie filmmakers ever hope that their films will be shown on the big screen? If so, and since 4K delivery is here, why would you not want to include this in your tests? Are we just talking about You Tube delivery? Everyone needs to know what their footage looks like for all possible presentations... at least that is the way we think.

We have disagreed about this from the beginning. If you want to constrain your testing to "what used to be the standard"... we have no interest.

Lets see what is 2012 and whats not: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread....-do-you-finish

4K not doing too well so far.

Additionally... if 4K is not here, why have so many companies announced a 4K camera? We are not alone...

Jim

4K is obviously better for post even if you don't finish 4K (which hardly anyone does). 4K footage downscaled to 2K looks better than 2K footage. You can test with your camera...

[Álex Montoya]

Although the 4K finish may not be the standard right now, it only seems right to try not to dumb down any camera in the test.

And there are other obvious uses for the extra resolution, from reframing to stabilizing.

It's fair that the difference in resolution can be appreciated on those tests, just as we can see the extra dynamic range of the Alexa or the extra sensitivity of the Canon C300.

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https://vimeo.com/alexmontoyamelia

[Peter Strietmann]

So all the cameras seem pretty great to me and the images that come from them are equally as great. Each one may be better at some things than the others. I have this image of Zacuto from seeing them represented at previous NABs of a cheesy kind of company with scantily clad women representing their products. I'm pretty sure their stuff is ok or they would be out of business by now. It would be hard form me to lend any credence to, or take seriously, a company with this business model...

[Alessio G.]

As an indie filmmaker, I think I might have some trouble finding a theater right now that will show my film in a theater at all, let alone in 4K, (which is a good news as I've already mastered it in 2K) : )
I'm sure in the next 2-3 years it will be different.

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

yeah why doesnt RED just do a test of their own

Very much this. Red guys shall to perform their own tests later this year with the recent 4K and sub-4K cams: Red Epic, Sony F65, Arri Alexa, new 4K Canons, Blackmagic CC (2,5K) and even DSLRs like mkIII (1080). Ask pros to come and judge it on a 2K and 4K projection. I'm really tired of some test shoot videos, that always have couple guys with nonsense like "wow, even the old dslr footage looks better than Red, haha!" I'm tired of that crap.

[Gunleik Groven]

If the test is to be given any credibility, there should be similar competance around the other systems...

G

[steve weiss]

Steve... without a 4K test there is no interest on our part. Do Indie filmmakers ever hope that their films will be shown on the big screen? If so, and since 4K delivery is here, why would you not want to include this in your tests? Are we just talking about You Tube delivery? Everyone needs to know what their footage looks like for all possible presentations... at least that is the way we think.

We have disagreed about this from the beginning. If you want to constrain your testing to "what used to be the standard"... we have no interest.

Additionally... if 4K is not here, why have so many companies announced a 4K camera? We are not alone...

Jim

Jim,
I would agree with you that 4K cameras are here (and there are benefits for some, not everyone to using them), again, right camera for right job. My only issue is that 4K theaters are not here. Statistics prove it and at NAB I believe only Canon had 4K projection and it cost them a $250K rental for 2 projectors from what I heard. Sure I might be able to find a 4K theater to screen in LA but no way can I find one in all of the countries I'm screening in, probably not one. Again my issue is that I don't want to misrepresent the public on what they will be seeing. In 2012 they will for the most part be watching 2K. In the history of cinema for all practical purposes there has really only been one 4K movie released. So the theaters that do have 4K are only playing 2K in them because 4K films are very scarce in 2012.

If things change in the future, which they may or may not, because many theaters have already bought 2K and I don't see them shelling our more cake to upgrade their 2K to 4K when I don't see it selling them more tickets, we'll have to see. The theater business is a business and not a great one. BTW, in my film you will see a screening of average theater goers watching the shootout to see if they even notice the difference between the iPhone 4s or the F65, Alexa or RED. That is after all who we make these projects for, NO?

Now I have a challenge for you. I bet that in our 2K screening that you would not be able to pick your camera out between the Alexa & F65 and maybe some of the others. I've watched this thing a hundred times and all of us in the color timing room are like "which camera is this" Rodney was doing it, Bruce was doing it, I was, the higher end cameras all look very similar even when shot with different DP's and lighting schemes. It's very hard to tell the difference (we are splitting hairs), which is good news for you because your price point is the best. Now it all boils down to creature comforts, design, use, workflow, speed and preference. Again there is tons of business for everyone and an ass for every saddle. Signing off, Steve