Real camera tests...

[Richard_JP]

Hiring a dp for an individual shoot that has already been approved is a bit different than getting executive approval at a huge corporation to engage in a shootout with other manufacturers.

At the other manufacturers HQ... Yeah I could see some stumbling points right there. Like it being fixed in favor of RED? I mean, at the end of the day, RED doesn't like the rules laid down by Zucuto, so they want to conduct their own test, so they can set their own rules... The rule that they want to impose is how good footage looks at 4k, when many of the cameras don't shoot 4k. Yes making your own rules will probably ensure that you win, but I don't think it adds anything to your credibility.

[Jason Sinclair]

Really who cares what camera you use?

Its a free world.

However that does not diminish from the fact that a) the Epic is vastly superior camera than the Alexa an almost every front. and B) Cannot even compare to DSLR's.

Masseratti might say our cars are superior to ford . I'm not going to get butthurt on that obvious fact. That masserati can't build their cars for half the price of a ford is about the only difference.

[Patrick Tresch]

i guess you did not read the manual. you can turn the fan off whilst shooting. You can set it to turn the fan off once the record button is on, and offwhen done. I have never heard off an Epic camera overheating in a long take. Did you report this issue to the red team?

You actually tested three bodies? Really.... Why do I smell "bullshit"?

Its statements like yours that make the rest of us loose jobs. there are a plethora or EPIC owners and users on this forum. You are the only one with Overheating problems.

Try to put the fan to lower than 35% on an Epic M wich has not been through the upgrade programm and call me back.
How long was your longest take with an Epic-X that had the fan set to 25%?


Pat

PS: I forgot to put : sound level of the camera while rehearsing.

[Álex Montoya]

That's going to be very cool.

[Gunleik Groven]

Try to put the fan to lower than 35% on an Epic M wich has not been through the upgrade programm and call me back.
How long was your longest take with an Epic-X that had the fan set to 25%?
[/B]

'bout a minute or 2 inndoors before it sefdestructs, if memory serves me...

Fan is definitely there to stay...

[BigLu]

See, the thing is, you guys only look at this from one perspective. The big screen. But there are a plethora of reasons as to why many people don't feel any need to shoot 4k... because it's not often needed and creates problems later on. For example, I was working on a production last month that had super tight turn around times. We didn't want to shoot on the likes of the EX1 or similar, so we chose the Alexa. For us it was perfect, and meant that the turn around time was manageable. Something that wouldn't have been possible if we were shooting on RED. Obviously RED wants everything to be measured on resolution, as they will win. But for most people, 4k, 6k and whatever comes next isn't really important, as we aren't shooting for big screen. We are shooting for TV and the internet. I often wonder how many of you guys are actually shooting for the big screen...

Hi Richard,

You might like this one.

I have been in similar situations on multiple shoots where editorial had to begin immediately on set literally feet away from the camera to make extraneous deadlines. ( absolutely no time to transcode ) So when you say super tight turn arounds I say HELL YA lets do this.
See what made it extra special was the Coloring capabilities that the RED settings offered.
The DP and I took some time to set up the colors in the camera specific to his desired look on his monitor.
And what he saw in his directors / DP monitor at his table was exactly what the editors were getting in post, there for the color grades were set, dialed in and approved on the spot. HUGE WIN for all of us on set and in post. Clients were just pleased as they were part of the process.
I had multiple editors taking footage moments from when we called cut. Handed them over ProRes 422 files done ready to go they loaded the files into their computer and cut immediately.
1 project was even all Green Screen. You can go PR 4444 however in this case 422HQ was the way the editors wanted it.
( you can also go DNXHD if you desire )

They were absolute total successes each time each shoot.

Here is how I pulled it off.
http://www.aja.com/en/products/ki-pro-mini/#/overview

Today with the REDcolor 3 REDgamma 3 the results are even more pleasing. I did this actually over a year ago so the improvements are amazing today,
and for those who prefer a flatter look to work with and choose to color grade with more elasticity you have REDfilmlog.

So if you feel you CANT do it with REDone, Scarlet or EPIC dont be alarmed.
You can give this a test run and see how you feel about it.
Today I like this choice for various reasons.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/pix.htm

But you dont have to take my word for it. Give it a whirl and see what you think.

All the best.
LUIS

[conrad gaunt]

Fan noise should be in the test,

I'd bet the Alexa with its slower , quieter, larger fan will beat Epic in terms of design.. but will still be noiser than a HDHero ;)

[Josh Snyder]

At the other manufacturers HQ... Yeah I could see some stumbling points right there. Like it being fixed in favor of RED? I mean, at the end of the day, RED doesn't like the rules laid down by Zucuto, so they want to conduct their own test, so they can set their own rules... The rule that they want to impose is how good footage looks at 4k, when many of the cameras don't shoot 4k. Yes making your own rules will probably ensure that you win, but I don't think it adds anything to your credibility.

Zacuto doesn't make cameras. So what you said only applies to RED.

[Gunleik Groven]

See, the thing is, you guys only look at this from one perspective. The big screen. But there are a plethora of reasons as to why many people don't feel any need to shoot 4k... because it's not often needed and creates problems later on. For example, I was working on a production last month that had super tight turn around times. We didn't want to shoot on the likes of the EX1 or similar, so we chose the Alexa. For us it was perfect, and meant that the turn around time was manageable. Something that wouldn't have been possible if we were shooting on RED. Obviously RED wants everything to be measured on resolution, as they will win. But for most people, 4k, 6k and whatever comes next isn't really important, as we aren't shooting for big screen. We are shooting for TV and the internet. I often wonder how many of you guys are actually shooting for the big screen...

Well, I am not.


I really wish RED was marketing the rest of their system, too - not only the pixels.

We use REDs for TV drama a lot, and opted to stay RED when the Alexa came out, because the differences in quality was neglectable (for practical results), and with the improvements with the Epic, we're really satisfied. Not one of the reasons were the pixelcount in itself...

Scalability of workflow from quick turnaround "direct delivery" to "full DI" from the same signal depending on production, was one of our reasons. After all the R1MX RAW files are about the same size as the Prores 4444.

The practical results from the cameras weren't really different back then...
http://www.gunleik.com/tests/alexmx/.../Matching.html

But the artefacts introduced in the Alex through internal debayering (still there last time
I lokked) and compression (improved a lot) affected both apparent sharpness and use in a VFX pipeline...
http://www.gunleik.com/tests/alexmx/...esolution.html

With the Epic, we have an even more compact onboard RAW recording machine, that actualy handles overexposure the way we want it, First camera I have used that doesn't distort in the last stop before clip. So all is fun and good.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...l=1#post796537

I still like using the Alexa a lot, only wish it was more handleable/pricecompatible for a RAW workflow, where I think it shines compared to its prores/uncompressed modes...

The Alexa design, is a lot more userfriendly out of the box, though with nice places to place fat and clumsy fingers, like mine... I like that.
And the Old Bomb, lost RED a few sales here in Norway, that I know of.
Glad they decided to upgrade that solution!

[Perry Ho]

Great Job Mr. Jim! Totally Agree, and await for the real test to show the local film makers here in Mainland China,
Just done a tvc in Beijing Mainland China, I'd changed their mind to use Epic Camera instead of Alexa, at the end client, production and director loves the footage,
and the new Feature Film I just start shooting today, I had been explaining for many times to director, finally I can get to use 2 of Red Epic cameras for this project,
the first day - today I got a great feedback from the Director, he loves the Epic footage...

The customer has the right to know...

BTW... not worried.

Jim