EPIC FAN NOISE - HEARTBREAKING DURING INTERVIEW

[Nick Gardner]

@ Nick, I have had no reason to change from factory settings. I have used a clients camera and had the "hairdrier" in the middle of the take, because the sound guy had insisted they turn the fans down on a previous job. That's sounds fault for not understanding what the hell they are asking for.

A 'non-issue' to camera could mean the world to sound.

That's great, but if sound really thinks it's a problem, and they have never sat though a mix, and don't understand the difference between being able to hear something when the room is dead silent, and having something so far under the person speaking that it doesn't matter, then yeah they should get a different job. Things like putting a Lav on a guy when you are already booming is the kind of shit that lets you hear the camera. There is no reason to do that shit unless the producer got burned by a lousy sound guy in the past so he insists on it.

You wouldn't be happy with a slight boom shadow in the shot halfway through a long take, would you?

I wouldn't care if there was a boom shadow that was out of frame - that is the correct analogy here. Hearing something, and something being a problem are too different things. Just like a boom shadow out of frame isn't a problem.

The vast majority of productions don't budget anything for dialogue mixing or sound design in post to fix these things,

What kind of low rent cable access show doesn't budget a mix? The lowest rent indie movie I ever worked on did a decent mix. Every doc I have ever worked on has had a mix. The shittiest dumb ass History channel show I ever worked on had a mix.

I understand it would be nice if the camera was a little quieter, but it's not. It is totally useable however, and a quiet talk with the sound guy before the shoot will usually prevent them complaining loudly about it in front of the client and the producers.

Just my opinion, I'm pretty anti sound anyway ;-)

Nick

[Michael Panfeld]

I don't want to start a snowboarders vs skiers, tastes great/less filling kind of argument here, but I take offense at Nick's comment. Nick G that is. That sounds like something a shooter would typically say about sound. I am going to bite my tongue here and refrain from a snappy response. I'll say this, studies have shown that sound is more important than visuals in terms of negative audience response to a movie. So the boom shadow/fan noise may be an apt analogy from a technical view, but from the audience's seat, they are not the same. They will ignore the boom shadow but get annoyed at the fan noise if it is not addressed (either on set or in post).

Doug is absolutely correct: the sound guy should be letting the producer/director know that he can hear the camera. With that knowledge, he/she can make some decisions on production changes and/or post requirements.

[Rob Gardner]

I am a Soundman. Hath not a Soundman eyes? Hath not a Soundman hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter and summer, as a DP is?

If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?

[Nick Gardner]

That sounds like something a shooter would typically say about sound

I am not trying to be antagonistic, I'm all for an open discussion. I'm not talking as a shooter, I am talking as a film maker who has followed dozens of productions all the way through post, and sat in on more than a few mixes. Sound design is incredibly important, I don't mean to diminish that at all. It's more of making mountains out of mole hills.

Let me put it like this. Nobody's interview sound is going to be ruined with the fans at 35% if they have a decent sound guy and a good shotgun mic. It sure as shit is going to ruin your interview if you turn the fans down and they kick in in the middle of the interview.

Nick

[Eric Haase]

Fan set to manual @ 38-40 roll, 100% standby. Many long interviews and no overheating.

You will not have a sound issue no matter how quiet the room or close the camera. You know they're going to put music under it anyway....and it is still quieter than any film camera. Someone make a chart for this in one of these crazy camera tests and be sure to put all film cameras in there. Did someone say "barney?"

[Rick Darge]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Best. Ever. Ever.

I am a Soundman. Hath not a Soundman eyes? Hath not a Soundman hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, heal'd by the same means, warm'd and cool'd by the same winter and summer, as a DP is?

If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?

[Brendan McGinty]

I have had fan issues in a natural history context. Shooting on a 300mm lens in a "hide", vultures were scarred off a potential carcass (they are surprisingly cautious before they have settled on a kill) when the fans kicked in.
I had wondered whether there were any mechanical solutions to the fan noise?
There are several "acoustically silent" fans being offered for computer and industrial cooling purposes at the moment. I think there has been work done on the blade contours... with non-traditional blades yielding a far quieter product.
Could the Epic's fan itself be replaced with a quieter/silent version?
Also the grille in front of the fan is fairly basic... if you hold your hand at a 45 degree angle in front of it the improvement is quite striking. Again I wondered whether an extended acoustic grille could work to reduce the noise?
Love the pictures and understand the need for the cooling... just wondered if there might be some more acoustically elegant options for fan and grille?

[Robert Berger]

Was shooting a feature for NBC Sports for London Olympics last week. The fan settings were "Manual" and record speed was set to 25% (then later in the interview after coming on automatically it was set to "Off", then back to 25%), and stand-by speed set to 75%. The room was air conditioned and was in the mid-to low 70's F. Cool, HMI and Kino Flo lighting. Was shooting for the PAL broadcast out of London at 25 Fps.

This young Olympian we interviewed has a tragic story of being sexually abused by her mother's boyfriend and her mother dying in a car accident right after the abuse.

As she told the story to the camera and tears streamed down her face...the camera fan turned on automatically at 100% (even though set to manual).

It sounded like a leaf blower was three feet from the microphone. It was, of course, very loud in the quite room Ruined the content for that sound byte...and ruined the moment as we had to stop. I ran the fan, put a bag of ice on the camera and apologized to the producer for the interruption.

After cooling the camera and re-starting the interview...the fan kept going on by itself about every 4-5 minutes. We eventually concluded the interview and the editors will try to salvage the audio and content...but i was extremely disappointed in the real world functionality of the camera as it relates to overheating. The picture was great, but if i can't get through a one hour interview in a room temperature environment without very loud fan noise, I've got an issue with that as a tool for recording sync sound in an intimate setting. (interviews)

Could just be a software bug, and maybe my camera is the only one that does that. Wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience or has any advice on how to keep the fan from starting spontaneously during an intimate interview in a quiet room that may require long clips rolling continuously.

I shoot a lot of long interviews and 35% running fan works very well in tight rooms. 75% when stop filming will cool enough. Prtecting your data it's wise to start/stop every time you can. Otherwise with a power loss you will lose your last clip.

[Antonio Ribeiro]

+1

Are you an engineer Antonio?

Let's start a group buy ;-)

Pat

Hi Patrick,

No, just someone who was startled when I first saw those things you put round bottles to keep them cool. Maybe we could have something similar for our cameras. So the line of thought before a shoot would be 'Batteries charged: check; tripod plate: check; lenses; check; Red's cooler sleeve from the freezer: check.

A

[Greg Blakey]

I also find this extremely frustrating. I live in australia. 35c+ degrees celsius is a common temperature durring summer. My scarlet's fan goes to 100% at 40c. Which feels over cautious. I understand these technologies run hot. However when i compare it to a lap top processing massive amount of data is safe running temperature is around 80c. I do wonder if this problem be resolved by increasing the temperature threshold?

Kindest
Greg