Red Rocket vs Nvidia Maximus

[Jim Woo]

Hi everyone.

Just wondering if there are any lucky fellas working with Nvidia Maximus equipped gear and Adobe Premiere Pro. How does Maximus measures up against a Rocket card playing back R3D files? Thank you in advance for your feedback!

JW

[Les Dittert]

Nvidia does zero for decoding the compression of the r3d, and that is what is slow for pure playback speed.

[Vico Martin]

Sorry Les but Nvidia does what Adobe Mercury Engine said, and it´s saying: De-Bayer fast!
I work with RR and can feel how CS6 and Nvidia aproximate, they are coming really fast.

I think there are threats open about this, like Luigi´s one, comment there or moderators come to scold.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The two technologies actually work well together as they do different things. As of this time the wavelet decompression only happens on the CPUs or the RED Rocket (if you have it). So having the Rocket will assist in the wavelet decode, which actually accounts for the majority of compute needs on the R3D footage. After that step comes the de-bayer or de-mosaic process. Then comes all the other tasks such as LUT application, transformations, scaling, etc.. This is where the GPUs or compute cards can step in to assist.

nVidia Maximus is really just a marketing name for systems that are "approved" or supported out of the box for use with multi-GPU or compute-card processing. Pretty much any nVidia SLI compliant system will do this.

Looks like CS6 can take advantage of multiple GPUs for acceleration, so we should see a nice boost, but the Rocket is always going to be of assistance until the RED SDK starts offloading wavelet decode tasks to other devices. It should be noted, however, that the Rocket decode is always a full resolution and full quality decode. Doing a lower resolution/quality decode from the wavelet, especially on multiprocessor systems with 8 cores or better right now, can actually be faster than the Rocket if you're looking for lower resolution playback and response while editing. Where the Rocket truly shines is in final render where you do want to pull frames at full resolution/ quality. Also it helps in smaller ways like tweaking looks and RMDs in the source settings panels as it allows for real-time response in an application area not accelerated by MPE. The Rocket is also insanely useful with After Effects.

[luigivaltulini]

The two technologies actually work well together as they do different things. As of this time the wavelet decompression only happens on the CPUs or the RED Rocket (if you have it). So having the Rocket will assist in the wavelet decode, which actually accounts for the majority of compute needs on the R3D footage. After that step comes the de-bayer or de-mosaic process. Then comes all the other tasks such as LUT application, transformations, scaling, etc.. This is where the GPUs or compute cards can step in to assist.

nVidia Maximus is really just a marketing name for systems that are "approved" or supported out of the box for use with multi-GPU or compute-card processing. Pretty much any nVidia SLI compliant system will do this.

Looks like CS6 can take advantage of multiple GPUs for acceleration, so we should see a nice boost, but the Rocket is always going to be of assistance until the RED SDK starts offloading wavelet decode tasks to other devices. It should be noted, however, that the Rocket decode is always a full resolution and full quality decode. Doing a lower resolution/quality decode from the wavelet, especially on multiprocessor systems with 8 cores or better right now, can actually be faster than the Rocket if you're looking for lower resolution playback and response while editing. Where the Rocket truly shines is in final render where you do want to pull frames at full resolution/ quality. Also it helps in smaller ways like tweaking looks and RMDs in the source settings panels as it allows for real-time response in an application area not accelerated by MPE. The Rocket is also insanely useful with After Effects.

Perfect.

[Les Dittert]

Like Jeff and Me said.
Compression decode not helped by Nvidia OR Mercury engine.
All of these companies use the same code to get to the r3d. ( The SDK from RED has the code in it )
Debayer does not take much horsepower to do, but it's still nice it can be offloaded.
It does sound like CS6 is good at multiple threads of RED decoding to get better performance. Uses cores more.

So again, for the sake of clarity and education: Decoding r3d is two steps, wavelet decompression of 4 bitplanes, and then the 'debayer' of those bitplanes to make a color image.

Sorry Les but Nvidia does what Adobe Mercury Engine said, and it´s saying: De-Bayer fast!
I work with RR and can feel how CS6 and Nvidia aproximate, they are coming really fast.

I think there are threats open about this, like Luigi´s one, comment there or moderators come to scold.

[Jim Woo]

Thank you everyone! Jeff, many, many thanks!

[Will Holman]

Hey guys,
I'm putting together my editing/color correcting suite and I need help picking the most effective equipment. I know that there is a lot of hesitation in buying equipment because of the uncertainty around the next generation of MBP's but I need to get to work now! Whether it's a macbook pro with thunderbolt and raid storage, mink R, iMac, or mac pro whatever I get I want to be able to integrate what ever new ted comes in the next 6 months or so. I'm shot with the Epic and I'm planing to with Adobe CS6, Davinci Resolve, and possibly Smoke. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks

Will

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hey Will, it's a tough nut to crack that's for sure.

If you want to standardize on the Mac platform, your best bet at the moment is probably a second-hand or refurbished Mac Pro. You can always go new if you're feeling spendy, but there seems to be quite a few used ones around right now. The iMac is also a good option too and the current 2011 model iMac can perform some tasks faster than a Mac Pro. Overall the Mac Pro (8 or 16 core) will outperform all the other iMac, mini, MBP options. iMac or used 8-core Mac Pro will probably run about the same price... You get more CPU horsepower from the Mac Pro and you don't need to spend $600~$700 and up on a separate box if you want to add a Rocket card.

Obviously, the advantage to going with the MBP is the mobility... However, that is somewhat debatable. Sure, the MBP itself is mobile, but after you start adding on things like fast external RAID, Rocket, etc.. It's not so portable anymore. Sure you could still fit it all in a large backpack, but I think we're looking at two different approaches here, each with their own applications.

You're talking about an editing and coloring suite, so I think it's best to focus on larger fixed-position hardware.

What do you already have, if anything? Are you starting completely from scratch or do you have some kit already -- monitors, storage, etc..?

Based on the applications listed, the Mac Pro tower seems like your best option over the iMac -- Resolve does best with multiple GPUs, and CS6 supports multiple GPUs now as well. Of course, multiple GPUs in a Mac Pro is another pandora's box yet to open, but at least it's an option. Something you can't do with an iMac. While it's fun to watch people at NAB demo Smoke on an iMac, the reality of it is that it takes forever and a day to render our your projects from Smoke when on an iMac... Same with other transcodes or renders.

You have some more options for CPU power if you want to consider the PC market and running Windows. This doesn't work so well for those who need to work in ProRes a lot. And as much as I like building PCs and having all that power under the hood, I still prefer OSX myself for the actual operating system.

Biggest down-side to the Mac Pro (and even most new PC systems) is the lack of PCIe slots and lanes. People like to complain about the Mac Pro and its slots, but the fact is, it's a problem that plagues most all computers these days. They're just not as expandable as many of us "pros" would like them to be. With the Mac Pro, you lose one slot for your primary GPU. Then based on the apps you have listed, you will want a BMD Decklink HD Extreme card and a good SAS/eSATA card. That leaves you with one slot... Do you install a RED Rocket? Do you use a second GPU to accelerate Resolve and CS6? Or perhaps a PCIe expansion box so you can work both of them into the mix...

[Mike Tiffee]

CS6 supports multiple GPUs now as well.

I have two GTX 580's. Will CS6 now use both of them?