Cancel that thought...

[Andrae Palmer]

It's hard to move on when Jim Jannard himself starts posts like these. We have an ARRI Alexa user on here... great... I have no issues with that whatsoever. I am curious to know if he's compared the Alexa to a EPIC with the latest color science. If in his opinion the Alexa is better from a filmic image point of view... I would like to know if that person thinks it's RED color science or if it's the sensor itself that produces the difference. Obviously if it's the color science... that can always be improved easily... as it has.

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/hammerforum-com

:)

[Jason Sinclair]

I am ready to move on. Thank you one and all for sharing your thoughts. Some really interesting perspectives between the attacks. At the end of the day, it will all sort itself out.

Steve, you have an amazing ability to hold your head in stressful situations and maintain perspective. It is my favorite trait in a person and a much needed quality on a film set. I'd hire you any day.

The good thing about the internet is it's all traceable in the future which will separate the wheat from the chaff.

cheers.

[Chris Smith]

To all my new friends in which I've had a spirited discussion today,


I have not tried the new RC3. I did state that earlier in this thread. I would also like to point out from the beginning I was trying to play the devil's advocate coming from someone who owns/owned both cameras and used them both in production. As Steve and others pointed out which I now heed as absolute truth is that it is a RED forum and it's "Jarred's House". I tried to say it was my fault in many pages of threads today that I walked into a forum that wants to have one viewpoint and that does indeed probably accidentally make me a troll. I kind of thought with the popularity of the forum , It was kind of open to all discussions and viewpoints. Like I also said, I rarely show up.


The reason I stated on ARRI forum it was sold is for the same reason I made the mistake of stating my opinion today, I was trying to not be furious about RED "screwing" me over in the attempted sale of my EPIC-M. If I had also gone on a tirade about how RED treated me when trying to sell my EPIC on ARRI or on the RED forum, you guys would have imploded into the singularity. I had complained so vocally on RED USER with Jarred I decided to treat it as though it was gone even though I was stuck with it. I made alternate plans which I described to bide the time until RED offered a RED Armor I could buy for the cam.


I was an EXTREMELY loyal customer of RED's and getting my EPIC last June was all over my Facebook page with huge smiles. I was so proud. I was already trying to figure out which parts I was going to buy to make the dream package. I shot with the EPIC all summer (I direct TV commercials). I went to a few transfer sessions where it was a strange coincidence that both colorists complained about yellows being out of control . And how it will take them extra time to grab all the skin tones and fix them. I'm sure you have seen that Peter Jackson had all the faces of his actors over-makeup'd to make up for that fact. I then had one of the colorists tell ask me why I still insisted on using a RED. I though it was in poor taste for him to mention that in front of the agency producer. She then spoke up and said, "Why don't you use an Alexa? Most directors use it and we kind of accept it as the replacement for film". So clearly there is already agency bias. I had tested an Alexa vs Red MX at Panavision months before and the Alexa looked quite noticeably better, but since I was a huge RED fan I was stubborn enough to think with the right mix of custom curves in Resolve I could get it to look like Alexa. I got some that made it "Alexa Like". I then posted on Red User an open note to RED in the "Skin Tones" thread last fall. This was my first distaste I felt about RED as Graeme and Dean kept side-stepping and belittling the Alexa and showing little chip charts. MMost and some other agreed with what I was saying. My post in general said, I LOVE my Epic, but want it to look as good as the Alexa and I got negativity. That was a turn off. I finally decided to do my next shoot with an Alexa (even though I wouldn't get any camera rental) and was blown away. Honestly my hope was that I would see the results and say, "meh" not much difference as I REALLY wanted to keep the EPIC. But it was a massive difference. Not only the use of the camera but also most importantly the results in the transfer session. I was sold. I put the EPIC-M up for sale, and found a buyer. Everything is great. Then I asked RED how to transfer the cam. I was actually in person at their Irvine office when I asked because I was picking up the EPIC getting it's D-Pad fixed. I found out I would have to pay $1500'ish (eval and transfer fees) to get it transferred and my 2 year warranty would be reduced to 3 mos if it's sold. I called AbelCine as I was about to buy an ARRI from them. I asked how much it costs me to transfer an Alexa and how much my warranty would be reduced. They said ZERO. I told the seller the predicament and he declined to buy the cam without a full warranty. I was furious. I asked my friend Dino who is an LA DIT I use a lot if Jarred ever reads his emails. He said yes. I wrote Jarred a very respectful note how I thought that was unjust. Never heard a peep. So I posted in the Red Armor forum post. And again, I received an amazing amount of resistance I felt.


I found out how a bunch of companies where doing consignments to get their EPIC paid off without having to use it. I told Jarred in the post I could do that but would much rather pay him money for an extended warranty and let him know who really has the camera. At first he was defiant "East Chris, go buy an ARRI" but then relented and said he would may work on something in the future. I just now for the first time in months emailed RED to see if I can buy an extended warranty if I sell the EPIC-M. We'll see what the answer is.


SO, why did I not mention all this in the ARRI thread OR the RED thread? Because I was already hostile about it (rightly so I believe) publicly with Jarred. He said he would work on it and I told him I didn't want to have to do a consign thing, I would rather pay him money and sell it for real. So I considered that a truce. As long as I can't sell it with a full 1 or 2 year warranty, then I will make money off it however I can whether it's in my house or someone else's.


Other than that ARRI post and my post today on the forum that got everyone mad at me I have not publicly complained about the RED and how much happier I am with the ARRI and how angry I became with RED as a company. If RED were cool through me trying to sell my cam, and if someone asked why I bought an ARRI instead, I would simply say, "It has an aesthetic I prefer" which of course is the truth. It's certainly not the size, weight and price. But after this experience, RED can make the best looking cam on the planet ever (in my eyes) and I would have to seriously tread lightly into buying one again. I would if it was the best image, as that is indeed my job to turn in the best images, but it would make me seriously slow at wanting to. Maybe Dragon will change my mind.


So being vague about the selling status of my camera was trying not to complain about the EPIC image AND how I *feel* that RED boned me with my warranty. I would think based on a few comments I made today defending a camera I like made so many people angry, I would think starting up my furious anger at my odd RED ownership predicament would have sent people into the abyss. Especially on the ARRI forum. I was TRYING to be as civil as possible. Clearly my anger still shows through my posts and that is a bad thing. I will not post or go to RED User anymore for everyone's benefit.


This is as honest as I can possibly get. I made a massive error in posting my opinion/venting my feelings today. I am your new favorite punching bag. I accept that. My truth is my truth, that truth is not proper etiquette here. Understood. I will not be replying anymore to this. Go read my history in any forum you like to know my feelings. I can also give my Vimeo as well if anyone wants to see what different shoots I've done with different cameras.


sincerely,


Chris Smith

edit: Here is the Vimeo anyways: http://vimeo.com/clsmith

[Elsie N]

Don't have time to read this tome at the present. Will it be on Amazon later?

[Andrae Palmer]

Thanks for your post Chris. I actually liked the thread over an ARRI forum where some were looking at the drawbacks of a modular system... such as reliability, weather proofing, etc. I could appreciate the decision of others.

[George Butterfield]

We just aren't up for the grief. We have better things to do.

There are lots of options for you to consider. I hope that RED is one of them.

Jim

Hey, I like that, that's what you call, "A good attitude". Why play that phony game, the real game is making movies!

[Robino_J]

Can't wait for Wednesday screening!

[George Butterfield]

Thanks for your post Chris. I actually liked the thread over an ARRI forum where some were looking at the drawbacks of a modular system... such as reliability, weather proofing, etc. I could appreciate the decision of others.

Lets see, my so called reliable system is Obsolete, now how reliable is that?

[Andrae Palmer]

Lets see, my so called reliable system is Obsolete, now how reliable is that?

Don't know what the heck you are talking about.