Cancel that thought...

[Hrvoje Simic]

[Jason Sinclair]

oh god... a Norwegian and two Australians... god help us. - and what he said^ -beating that poor dead horse.

[Evan Starkey]

That didn't take long...The horse looked healthy in Marks post

[Jason Sinclair]

He looked like he was scared of something though... I'm not sure maybe something off camera?

[Evan Starkey]

Well if it was a Dragon i mite look the same :)

[Jason Sinclair]

I think that explained the diarrhea...

[Evan Starkey]

Good point.......

[Chris Smith]

you know that your beloved alexa look is created with a low con filter and an internal LUT? If you cant let the epic look like alexa, you dont know your tools.

I have a quote from Graeme from this very board that says this is not true. May I dig it up?

Re: Not knowing grading systems.

I have spent hours with LUTS and curves with side by side images and tests and can easily get approximations like the samples that were just posted. But I don't think you are taking into account the details. What you are doing is like taking marginal sounding speakers and messing with a graphic EQ to try and sound close to balanced studio monitors. Then because your ear isn't refined enough, you call it done. I would rather have the high end , well balanced studio monitors in the first place. I'm not only talking about me, I'm referring to 2 different colorists who tell me how much extra work it takes for them to get a decent look from EPIC because of all the secondary work needed to get the colors balanced, most notably yellows and skin tones. This is the cue for you to tell me how they don't know their systems. I won't get into name dropping their credentials, but suffice to say they do. Granted this is before RC3, but I don't see how RC3 changed things much.

I should have known that I cannot try and have a balanced conversation on this board about the nature of various cams I own without, "If RED's not the best at everything, then you suck!". Unfortunate. But my point still stands. Producer's ask for Alexa for many reasons most notably it's look. I do not disagree with anyone who says EPIC looks clean and sharp. Absolutely. 1000%. But there's the aesthetic of the image.

[Esmaile Neissi]

guys lets be honest , Alexa's footage have a beautiful look to them the skin tone is perfect and the dual gain structure for handling 7 stop over expose for iso 800 is amazing , in the other hand the resolution the high speed and the size and the price of epic is not comparable to any of other camera , i personally like the look of Alexa but how a company treat you as a customer is much important for me as a rental company , so i never buy Alexa as far as they treat people like their slaves even if Alexa is the best camera in the planet.

[Steve Sherrick]

I have a quote from Graeme from this very board that says this is not true. May I dig it up?

Re: Not knowing grading systems.

I have spent hours with LUTS and curves with side by side images and tests and can easily get approximations like the samples that were just posted. But I don't think you are taking into account the details. What you are doing is like taking marginal sounding speakers and messing with a graphic EQ to try and sound close to balanced studio monitors. Then because your ear isn't refined enough, you call it done. I would rather have the high end , well balanced studio monitors in the first place. I'm not only talking about me, I'm referring to 2 different colorists who tell me how much extra work it takes for them to get a decent look from EPIC because of all the secondary work needed to get the colors balanced, most notably yellows and skin tones. This is the cue for you to tell me how they don't know their systems. I won't get into name dropping their credentials, but suffice to say they do. Granted this is before RC3, but I don't see how RC3 changed things much.

I should have known that I cannot try and have a balanced conversation on this board about the nature of various cams I own without, "If RED's not the best at everything, then you suck!". Unfortunate. But my point still stands. Producer's ask for Alexa for many reasons most notably it's look. I do not disagree with anyone who says EPIC looks clean and sharp. Absolutely. 1000%. But there's the aesthetic of the image.

Chris, I think there are some objective people here. But when it comes to cameras, I don't think there is such a thing as true objectivity. Especially in the case of a comparison between Alexa and Epic. It tends to be very subjective. In my opinion, there's no better way to make your point then showing examples, visual examples. Shoot a scene with both cams, post the results and have a discussion. Timur did it recently with the Scarlet and the F3. Turns out he needed to refine some things. It was a beneficial discussion. I welcome these kinds of things. If it's not appropriate for Reduser, host it elsewhere. Saying it and showing it are two different things. Those who have never used an Alexa may not have a solid reference point for comparison.

I don't think your points are invalid. I do think Alexa is chosen for more reasons than just workflow. I know several DPs who really like the image the camera produces. People may react emotionally here, but that's because it's a passionate forum, pretty much unrivaled anywhere on the web when it comes to camera forums. But personally, I am not that interested in pissing matches. I like productive discussion, because quite often it can be a learning experience for everyone involved. It's the kind of vibe you want on a community based forum. Everyone striving to get better, willing to help each other get better, and in the end a great resource of information.