Epic vs Alexa Producer Arguement

[steve green]

I'm new to the Epic community and am shooting a commercial package beginning in June. This will be the sixth year we've done this package of spots, years 1 and 2, 35MM film, then Sony F23, Sony F35 and last year Alexa (SXS Cards). This year I'd like to use the Epic at 4K (or 5K), the producer is leaning towards going back to Alexa. I should also mention that a portion of the package is for theatrical release as well as broadcast.

My question to all the Red veterans out there is, what are the most important "talking points" when having this discussion with a producer? I have a basic understanding of resolution, raw vs pro res, and workflow. I also know that ease of workflow is very important to this producer.

I'm certain that there must be many of you on the Red User Forum who have had this discussion in the past and can pass along some words of wisdom.

Thanks in advance to any help you can offer.

[Steve Sherrick]

Steve, you mention workflow is important to producer. What is the RED workflow you have outlined to show them?

[Nick Gardner]

What is the nature of the spots? I find that one of the biggest selling points is flexibility in post. The ability to reframe, stabilize, high rez for graphics and VFX. If you are sitting on a dolly all day, then size is sort of irrelevant, but there are lots of situations where the size of the camera can be a great plus.

If they get film, I would say Alexa Vs Epic is the difference between shooting negative and reversal.

I can't imagine having to shoot any major work on anything other than epic. It's the future.

Nick

[steve green]

I haven't really outlined any sort of workflow except for transcoding the R3D's to "Avid friendly" files.

The spots are all very controlled, day interiors, or stage work on constructed sets. On a dolly not much moving around. All the things Nick mentioned aren't really relevant. This producer does like to stay on the edge so the "future proof" 4K point seems to be my (our) strongest point so far.

I too have grown very used to shooting on Epic and really don't want to entertain the thought of having to shoot with Alexa on the job.

[Bruce Allen]

Is there a particular creative reason that you want to shoot on RED that fits the spot?

Technical advantages for Epic would be:
- Small size and light weight (so you can do more crazy rigs, easier Steadicam, etc)
- Cheaper (can put more money into other parts of the spot)
- 120fps
- being able to shoot wide then use the extra space for reframing / push ins without softness
- HDRx

If none of those really jump out to you as being good for the job, then why fight with the producer? Just go with what they want - eg Alexa and be super nice about it.

Chances are that they will then trust you when a job comes up that Epic is really made for.

Last thing you want to do is lose the trust of the producer or come across as biased.

Trying to argue that RED is better for theatrical than Alexa seems a little silly considering that The Avengers, which was primarily Alexa, is currently breaking records.

You know, theatrically...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[steve green]

Bruce, Points well taken! The only item on the list you compiled which is applicable might be some b-roll we need to do at a factory with a small crew. As far as everything else I've got nothing.

BTW, was Avengers shot on SXS cards or did they go with the Arri Codex?

[Brad Allen]

Trying to argue that RED is better for theatrical than Alexa seems a little silly considering that The Avengers, which was primarily Alexa, is currently breaking records.

You know, theatrically...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Pretty much agreed with all your others points Bruce, but just wanted to mention that I was disappointed when I found out that The Avengers was shot on Alexa - only reason being that it means I will never be able to see a true 4k version of it some day in the future. Great film and looked amazing - just wish that awesomeness was future proofed :)

[Brad Allen]

BTW, was Avengers shot on SXS cards or did they go with the Arri Codex?

Arri Codex :) - see here > http://www.codexdigital.com/assets/docs/Marvel's The Avengers employs Codex-ARRIRAW Workflow.pdf

[steve green]

Thanks Brad for the research. Is there a tangible advantage for 4K over SxS when doing a theatrical release. To me it seems like the answer is obviously, yes. But for specifically what reasons.

[Erich Ocean]

Thanks Brad for the research. Is there a tangible advantage for 4K over SxS when doing a theatrical release. To me it seems like the answer is obviously, yes. But for specifically what reasons.

Alexa RAW is 3.5K. Adding that extra 0.5K to get it to 4K RAW isn't going to change much, if anything.