New Workstation Build

[Luke Boyce]

So I've been perusing these forums for the past few days trying to collect the information necessary to figure out the components needed to build a new workstation. I've used Mac Pro's my entire career thus far, but my 2008 Mac Pro is showing it's age and now that I've fully moved from FCP to Adobe, I'm not locked into the Apple Infrastructure anymore, which means I realize that I can really put together a serious machine that will give me more bang for my buck. Not that I don't love Apple, but regardless of when and if new Mac Pro's are released, I'd just like to have more options regarding expandability, especially in the GPU department.

So using the information mostly offered by Jeff Kilgore on these threads, I listed what I think seems to be a pretty decent system, and just wanted any advice regarding it or any suggestions for something I may have forgotten about. Also thought a thread pulling in some of the current information spread out through other threads may help people in a similar situation (unless there's already another thread like this that I may have missed, which is possible).

In my case, we're trying to avoid a Red Rocket. I know that if I want smooth 4k playback I should just get one, but, the pricing just doesn't fit in my budget. I'm trying to work under the $9,000 range as much as possible so it doesn't work, and I think I can get along fine without it. At least, that's what I gather. I also don't deal much in color grading apps. I've never touched Resolve and probably won't in the near future. I'm interested in Speedgrade, but generally I stick mostly to Premiere and After Effects. My production company mostly produces corporate stuff and films. For our corporate stuff we just do basic color correction and for our films we tend to have it done professionally after the edit. Up till now, I haven't had a CUDA enabled card in my system so since moving to Adobe I haven't been able to take advantage of the Mercury Playback Engine. And having worked most of my life in Final Cut, I haven't had the need to have tons and tons of RAM. That's changed now. I edit native R3D's (mostly 4k) in Premiere and do motion graphics in After Effects, but I don't have good knowledge of GPU's and that stuff. Honestly, I'm a creative director so I don't really even have any experience building PC's (although I built my own HTPC at home, but that was a fairly simple machine I built for less than $400). So all of that is to just say, I'm an intermediate at best with this stuff. Be gentle.

So here's the setup:
1. MOBO: SuperMicro Super X9DAi Motherboard
PRICE: [Included with Chassis]

2. CPU: Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W 3.1GHz 8-Core
PRICE: $3,800

3. GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX580
PRICE: $600

4. RAM: (2) G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 128GB (8 x 8GB) 600 (PC3 12800)
PRICE: $900

5. CHASSIS: SuperMicro SYS-7047A-T 4U (Pre-Wired with X9DAi Mobo)
PRICE: $1,150

6. SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 512GB SATA III MLC Internal
PRICE: $650

7. OPTICAL DRIVE: LG Black 14X Internal Blu-Ray Burner
PRICE: $120

8. OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
PRICE: $130

9. MONITOR: Dell Ultrasharp U2711 27” Monitor
PRICE: $800

Couple of notes: I realize that SuperMicro is a little touchy with their RAM and they have suggestions on their site. I saw that Jeff was looking at those G.Skills so I used them mostly as a price-reference, but I wasn't sure if they would work or not.

Also, I'm extremely interested in the GTX 690 more than anything but I realize that Adobe is still working on supporting the Keplar architecture on CS6, so I wasn't sure if I should count on it or not. I noticed that Jeff had one on order, but haven't noticed any comments that he had it yet and had tested it. If I wait on anything, I think it would be to evaluate the potential of using that card, because at that price-point ($1k-$1.5k) I definitely would want to get it in place of the gtx580. Would anybody confirm that's wise? Or at least the 680? I know that's generally in the same boat as the 690, but having not used any CUDA cards, I don't know if the boost from 500 CUDA cores to the 1500 or even 3000 would be significant (common sense is telling me that it would).

P.S. I'm also interested in a RAID config with the hot-swap bays on the chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can create an internal raid using the X9DAi. Is that wise working with 4k files or should I definitely plan on getting and adapter card?

So anyway, thoughts, comments, concerns. I apologize in advance if I've wasted anybody's time with this thread. Thanks

[Richard Tran]

So I've been perusing these forums for the past few days trying to collect the information necessary to figure out the components needed to build a new workstation. I've used Mac Pro's my entire career thus far, but my 2008 Mac Pro is showing it's age and now that I've fully moved from FCP to Adobe, I'm not locked into the Apple Infrastructure anymore, which means I realize that I can really put together a serious machine that will give me more bang for my buck. Not that I don't love Apple, but regardless of when and if new Mac Pro's are released, I'd just like to have more options regarding expandability, especially in the GPU department.

So using the information mostly offered by Jeff Kilgore on these threads, I listed what I think seems to be a pretty decent system, and just wanted any advice regarding it or any suggestions for something I may have forgotten about. Also thought a thread pulling in some of the current information spread out through other threads may help people in a similar situation (unless there's already another thread like this that I may have missed, which is possible).

In my case, we're trying to avoid a Red Rocket. I know that if I want smooth 4k playback I should just get one, but, the pricing just doesn't fit in my budget. I'm trying to work under the $9,000 range as much as possible so it doesn't work, and I think I can get along fine without it. At least, that's what I gather. I also don't deal much in color grading apps. I've never touched Resolve and probably won't in the near future. I'm interested in Speedgrade, but generally I stick mostly to Premiere and After Effects. My production company mostly produces corporate stuff and films. For our corporate stuff we just do basic color correction and for our films we tend to have it done professionally after the edit. Up till now, I haven't had a CUDA enabled card in my system so since moving to Adobe I haven't been able to take advantage of the Mercury Playback Engine. And having worked most of my life in Final Cut, I haven't had the need to have tons and tons of RAM. That's changed now. I edit native R3D's (mostly 4k) in Premiere and do motion graphics in After Effects, but I don't have good knowledge of GPU's and that stuff. Honestly, I'm a creative director so I don't really even have any experience building PC's (although I built my own HTPC at home, but that was a fairly simple machine I built for less than $400). So all of that is to just say, I'm an intermediate at best with this stuff. Be gentle.

So here's the setup:
1. MOBO: SuperMicro Super X9DAi Motherboard
PRICE: [Included with Chassis]

2. CPU: Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W 3.1GHz 8-Core
PRICE: $3,800

3. GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX580
PRICE: $600

4. RAM: (2) G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 128GB (8 x 8GB) 600 (PC3 12800)
PRICE: $900

5. CHASSIS: SuperMicro SYS-7047A-T 4U (Pre-Wired with X9DAi Mobo)
PRICE: $1,150

6. SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 512GB SATA III MLC Internal
PRICE: $650

7. OPTICAL DRIVE: LG Black 14X Internal Blu-Ray Burner
PRICE: $120

8. OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
PRICE: $130

9. MONITOR: Dell Ultrasharp U2711 27” Monitor
PRICE: $800

Couple of notes: I realize that SuperMicro is a little touchy with their RAM and they have suggestions on their site. I saw that Jeff was looking at those G.Skills so I used them mostly as a price-reference, but I wasn't sure if they would work or not.

Also, I'm extremely interested in the GTX 690 more than anything but I realize that Adobe is still working on supporting the Keplar architecture on CS6, so I wasn't sure if I should count on it or not. I noticed that Jeff had one on order, but haven't noticed any comments that he had it yet and had tested it. If I wait on anything, I think it would be to evaluate the potential of using that card, because at that price-point ($1k-$1.5k) I definitely would want to get it in place of the gtx580. Would anybody confirm that's wise? Or at least the 680? I know that's generally in the same boat as the 690, but having not used any CUDA cards, I don't know if the boost from 500 CUDA cores to the 1500 or even 3000 would be significant (common sense is telling me that it would).

P.S. I'm also interested in a RAID config with the hot-swap bays on the chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can create an internal raid using the X9DAi. Is that wise working with 4k files or should I definitely plan on getting and adapter card?

So anyway, thoughts, comments, concerns. I apologize in advance if I've wasted anybody's time with this thread. Thanks

Raid Card?

[Brian Merlen]

not to rain on ur plan, but wouldn't it be far easier to just buy a new 12 core mac and keep using all your same accessories and software? if your set on going the pc route far be it from me to stop you, but i figured all ur software is mac based right now anyway...

[Luke Boyce]

Raid Card?

I'm still confused about how necessary it is. I keep getting mixed reactions. Can I set one up just using the X9DAi? What are the benefits of using a card that would justify the $800-$1,000 hike? And I'm asking cause I seriously have no idea.

[Luke Boyce]

not to rain on ur plan, but wouldn't it be far easier to just buy a new 12 core mac and keep using all your same accessories and software? if your set on going the pc route far be it from me to stop you, but i figured all ur software is mac based right now anyway...

Well, my software isn't really mac-based at the moment. I'm planning on getting CS6 right away but it doesn't have to be mac and that's pretty much the majority of my software needs right there. And at the moment I don't really have any mac-specific accessories that I'm using. If I was going to stay the Mac route I'd most likely just wait and get the new ones whenever they're announced (I'm pretty confident they will be by June). But honestly, the only thing that would keep me in the Mac game would be the familiarity with the OS, but I just don't consider it significant enough to ignore the drastically more upgradable route of a PC workstation.

Great example is the GPU issue. I've wanted to upgrade my GPU for a few months now, to take advantage of the Mercury Engine in Premiere. When looking it up the lack of options other than a Quadro 4000 is just pathetic. Without having to make sure you have this, and make sure you do that with another card is annoying. I'd prefer a situation where, I could get a gtx 580 now, and it works. And then in 6 months if I want, get a 690 or whatever is available without any headaches. I mean, why shouldn't I have that option, just because I've used OS X most of my life?

[Richard Tran]

http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/...ial-c400-ssds/
this for speed,
and external RAID 1 enclosures for security?

The Card itself is inexpensive.

[Luke Boyce]

http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/...ial-c400-ssds/
this for speed,
and external RAID 1 enclosures for security?

The Card itself is inexpensive.

Interesting. I'll definitely look into that. The SuperMicro SYS-7047A-T has 8 bays in front for HDD's so we were going to probably just fill it with 7200rpm 3.5" drives.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So I've been perusing these forums for the past few days trying to collect the information necessary to figure out the components needed to build a new workstation. I've used Mac Pro's my entire career thus far, but my 2008 Mac Pro is showing it's age and now that I've fully moved from FCP to Adobe, I'm not locked into the Apple Infrastructure anymore, which means I realize that I can really put together a serious machine that will give me more bang for my buck. Not that I don't love Apple, but regardless of when and if new Mac Pro's are released, I'd just like to have more options regarding expandability, especially in the GPU department.

Aside from GPU selection or the ability to build monster systems with 4 or 8 CPUs, the Mac really doesn't lack in power like a lot of people think it does. Of course, they have have not announced a new system yet using the new Xeon E5-2600 series CPUs. Then again, most of the major PC vendors haven't either and of the "big guys", HP is the only one shipping them so far. That's been another hot topic around here lately, but we're all just guessing as to what Apple's next move will be.

In my case, we're trying to avoid a Red Rocket. I know that if I want smooth 4k playback I should just get one, but, the pricing just doesn't fit in my budget.

Avoiding the Rocket may be a good idea, it may not. You can get by with a lesser system for R3D workflow if you have a Rocket. And if you omit the Rocket, you're going to need a much more powerful system to accomplish the same thing. Of course, building a very powerful system up front still leaves you with the option to add the Rocket down the road.

I'm trying to work under the $9,000 range as much as possible so it doesn't work, and I think I can get along fine without it. At least, that's what I gather. I also don't deal much in color grading apps. I've never touched Resolve and probably won't in the near future. I'm interested in Speedgrade, but generally I stick mostly to Premiere and After Effects. My production company mostly produces corporate stuff and films. For our corporate stuff we just do basic color correction and for our films we tend to have it done professionally after the edit. Up till now, I haven't had a CUDA enabled card in my system so since moving to Adobe I haven't been able to take advantage of the Mercury Playback Engine. And having worked most of my life in Final Cut, I haven't had the need to have tons and tons of RAM. That's changed now. I edit native R3D's (mostly 4k) in Premiere and do motion graphics in After Effects, but I don't have good knowledge of GPU's and that stuff. Honestly, I'm a creative director so I don't really even have any experience building PC's (although I built my own HTPC at home, but that was a fairly simple machine I built for less than $400). So all of that is to just say, I'm an intermediate at best with this stuff. Be gentle.

Building a system isn't that difficult, but if you don't have much experience a system like these current dual-Xeon configurations can be rather daunting. Just hunting down the parts can be a significant task in itself. So I have to ask if you've considered buying a system like the HP Z820? I received one here today and there's a lot about it to like. There is another thread around here, where I compared my Z820 configuration to a similar build using the SuperMicro X9DAi motherboard. The HP did come at a premium -- in the case of a pretty extreme build, we're looking at about a $1000 premium. But the build quality is rather good and it's a well thought out system. Full 3-year on-site warranty and you don't have to spend all your time hunting down parts, assembling a system and testing it.

Anyway, on to your parts list...

So here's the setup:
1. MOBO: SuperMicro Super X9DAi Motherboard
PRICE: [Included with Chassis]

Yep, probably the best all-around E5-2600 motherboard right now. The ASUS board looks great and I'm hearing good things about it. However it has fewer PCIe and memory slots, so it's geared toward smaller configurations. The EVGA SR-X looks interesting, but the PCIe configuration is somewhat mysterious, as is the 12 DIMM slots. I'm waiting for some people to start posting in-depth reviews before I form an opinion. However, I'm probably done buying/building systems with this generation of Xeons until the Ivy Bridge Xeons ship sometime in about 10 to 14 months from now.

The X9DAi motherboard goes for about $450 and are still somewhat scarce. Easier to find and buy pre-wired into the SuperMicro chassis. This is not a bad way to do it.

2. CPU: Dual Intel Xeon E5-2687W 3.1GHz 8-Core
PRICE: $3,800

They're currently the fastest in the series. And they also run the hottest and suck up 150W each. HP won't sell them without their liquid coolers, so you need to have adequate ventilation and good coolers installed for these.

3. GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX580
PRICE: $600

Get the EVGA Classified Ultra model. It's the most hot-rod version of the card out there and also runs perfectly stable. Love this card. $529.99 at Amazon right now. :) Or $20 more at NewEgg, but they also offer a bundle for an additional $109 you get Adobe Lightroom 4 with it. Not a bad deal if you need Lightroom. I have the Z820 up and running, but haven't got too far with it just yet. Put a Quadro 6000 card in it for now. Will also test with the above-mentioned GTX580 and a couple other GPUs and various combinations. I haven't dug into Adobe CS6 much, will do so this weekend I hope.

4. RAM: (2) G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 128GB (8 x 8GB) 600 (PC3 12800)
PRICE: $900

Don't do it. I was considering this as a possibility in the beginning just because I couldn't find any of the approved RAM anywhere and these were relatively affordable as a temporary solution -- G.Skill usually has pretty good stuff. I recommend getting the Micron or Samsung RAM that is approved as per the SuperMicro web site. You can also order the proper RAM for this system now through Crucial or NewEgg has modules from both WinTec and Kingston that are compatible. You're looking at about $130 or so per 8GB module.

6. SSD: OCZ Vertex 4 512GB SATA III MLC Internal
PRICE: $650

It's fast. :) Write speeds are still a little underwhelming. Similar to the Samsung 830 SSD, but the read speeds are consistently saturating the 6Gbps SATA connection at about 550MB/s. Make sure to connect with a good quality cable and you don't need to buy an additional 2.5" to 3.5" adapter bracket as OCZ includes one with the SSD.

7. OPTICAL DRIVE: LG Black 14X Internal Blu-Ray Burner
PRICE: $120

OK.

8. OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
PRICE: $130

Yep...

9. MONITOR: Dell Ultrasharp U2711 27” Monitor
PRICE: $800

Decent monitor at a good price. I own several Dell monitors...

Couple of notes: I realize that SuperMicro is a little touchy with their RAM and they have suggestions on their site. I saw that Jeff was looking at those G.Skills so I used them mostly as a price-reference, but I wasn't sure if they would work or not.

Also, I'm extremely interested in the GTX 690 more than anything but I realize that Adobe is still working on supporting the Keplar architecture on CS6, so I wasn't sure if I should count on it or not. I noticed that Jeff had one on order, but haven't noticed any comments that he had it yet and had tested it. If I wait on anything, I think it would be to evaluate the potential of using that card, because at that price-point ($1k-$1.5k) I definitely would want to get it in place of the gtx580. Would anybody confirm that's wise? Or at least the 680? I know that's generally in the same boat as the 690, but having not used any CUDA cards, I don't know if the boost from 500 CUDA cores to the 1500 or even 3000 would be significant (common sense is telling me that it would).

Don't have the 690 yet... Not sure when I'll get it. It will get here when it gets here and hopefully the drivers won't be in such a beta state when it arrives. I hear they're pretty flaky right now. Although there are more CUDA cores, the speed doesn't translate linearly. Kepler is a new architecture with a different design philosophy. Using many more smaller and less powerful cores to do the work. Some operations are going to be significantly faster than the previous Fermi architecture. Others not so much, some even slower.

P.S. I'm also interested in a RAID config with the hot-swap bays on the chassis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can create an internal raid using the X9DAi. Is that wise working with 4k files or should I definitely plan on getting and adapter card?

Yes to the internal RAID. I would recommend using RAID-0 for speed for your primary working array. But you will want a good backup system in place. Even if you add-in another RAID card and go to RAID-5 or better, never consider that completely reliable. Once again, that's a whole other discussion... One that seems to rear it's head on these forums every now and then.

[Fabian Benninghoven]

Maybe you are interested in other MoBos than Supermicro... today i received this email:

Dear EVGA Customer,

EVGA is happy to announce the product that you requested to be notified is now available.

Please click on the link below to make your purchase.

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinf...270-SE-W888-KR

If you have any questions you can email us at sales@evga.com
Thank you,

EVGA Sales Team

[Luke Boyce]

Aside from GPU selection or the ability to build monster systems with 4 or 8 CPUs, the Mac really doesn't lack in power like a lot of people think it does. Of course, they have have not announced a new system yet using the new Xeon E5-2600 series CPUs. Then again, most of the major PC vendors haven't either and of the "big guys", HP is the only one shipping them so far. That's been another hot topic around here lately, but we're all just guessing as to what Apple's next move will be.

Ya, don't get me wrong, my Mac Pro's have been incredible. And we'll continue to use our 2008 as another editing station for smaller form stuff like DSLR shoots, etc. And I'm probably going to wait to buy anything until the new one's have been released, or at least until after WWDC, whichever comes first, just to make sure, but generally I'm just wanting to go the custom-PC route for the sake of future-flexibility.

So I have to ask if you've considered buying a system like the HP Z820? I received one here today and there's a lot about it to like. There is another thread around here, where I compared my Z820 configuration to a similar build using the SuperMicro X9DAi motherboard. The HP did come at a premium -- in the case of a pretty extreme build, we're looking at about a $1000 premium. But the build quality is rather good and it's a well thought out system. Full 3-year on-site warranty and you don't have to spend all your time hunting down parts, assembling a system and testing it.

I've very briefly looked at the Z820 after seeing you mention it more than once. I need to take a deeper look at it, honestly, but it's certainly not out of the question. In the end, it'll probably all come down to cost. The "hunting" part of the process I rather like.

They're currently the fastest in the series. And they also run the hottest and suck up 150W each. HP won't sell them without their liquid coolers, so you need to have adequate ventilation and good coolers installed for these.

Ah, not something I considered. Would it be more prudent, then, to go with something like the E5-2690's then, if I'm not planning on going with liquid cooling, or is there something you'd suggest here alternatively?

Get the EVGA Classified Ultra model. It's the most hot-rod version of the card out there and also runs perfectly stable. Love this card. $529.99 at Amazon right now. :) Or $20 more at NewEgg, but they also offer a bundle for an additional $109 you get Adobe Lightroom 4 with it. Not a bad deal if you need Lightroom. I have the Z820 up and running, but haven't got too far with it just yet. Put a Quadro 6000 card in it for now. Will also test with the above-mentioned GTX580 and a couple other GPUs and various combinations. I haven't dug into Adobe CS6 much, will do so this weekend I hope.

Awesome. Thanks for the suggestion. I will most definitely do that. And I very much look forward to the results of your testing.

Don't do it. I was considering this as a possibility in the beginning just because I couldn't find any of the approved RAM anywhere and these were relatively affordable as a temporary solution -- G.Skill usually has pretty good stuff. I recommend getting the Micron or Samsung RAM that is approved as per the SuperMicro web site. You can also order the proper RAM for this system now through Crucial or NewEgg has modules from both WinTec and Kingston that are compatible. You're looking at about $130 or so per 8GB module.

That's certainly what I was expecting to hear. Which means, for cost-purposes, I may have to go the 64gb route for the time being, then, so I don't double my cost on RAM, and then upgrade later.

Don't have the 690 yet... Not sure when I'll get it. It will get here when it gets here and hopefully the drivers won't be in such a beta state when it arrives. I hear they're pretty flaky right now. Although there are more CUDA cores, the speed doesn't translate linearly. Kepler is a new architecture with a different design philosophy. Using many more smaller and less powerful cores to do the work. Some operations are going to be significantly faster than the previous Fermi architecture. Others not so much, some even slower.

Sounds like the 580 is the way to go at the moment and I won't be disapointed. Good to hear. Granted, I'm coming from using NO CUDA cores, so anything will probably impress me speed-wise. But this, again, is one of the main reasons I'm considering going this route. It would feel great to know that, should a card like that end up being pretty amazing, I could always just add it in 8 months or so. Or for that matter, use the 580 for now and get whatever monster they release around NAB next year.

All in all...holy crap. Thank you so much for being insanely brilliant and so willing to offer up your expertise. Knowing this board is here and people like you are on it and generously offer your help makes jumping into this kind of thing not as scary as it could be. My appreciation is endless. Thank you so much.