Thread: Why camera companies are a bunch of liars

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  1. #1 Why camera companies are a bunch of liars 
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    Because they only show you what a camera CAN do, and conveniently forget what it can't.

    Same goes for "evangelists" of any platform.

    Really, what makes a tool great is it's ability to remove limitations and expand possibilities. No camera or light or anything is going to give you a one button way of making great images, but the best get completely out of your way.

    DSLRs were the opposite of this. No I don't want to shoot narrow depth of field shots without lights at night. I want to do a hundred other things, and most of these other things don't work well at all on a DSLR. If you think about it, footage form just about any other platform looks more varied than DSLR stuff. Even an Ex1, with its 1/2 inch chip, allowed you to shoot a much wider range of things in a much wider range of situations. If you added a 35mm adapter you were golden. With DSLRs, once you've seen one rack focus across a wedding veil (oops, moire...), you've seen them all. DSLRs limit your creativity to F 1.2 - thats' not empowering, that's narrowing your approach to a hackneyed cliche. I mean, the damned things wouldn't let you shoot bricks - have you ever been to Montreal? it meant not shooting on the street at all, ever, unless you were shooting what I have come to call "the wedding video look"- a close-up floating in a sea of blur - again, all these shots look the same - it's all very narrow and repetitive.

    Epic (and I would imagine to quite some degree Scarlet) raise the ceiling of possibility so high you almost never hit it.

    Can I shoot detailed scenes at f8? Yes. Can I shoot narrow depth of field if I want to? Yes. Can I shoot in low light? Yes. Can I shoot very high dynamic range scenes? Yes. Can I shoot slo-mo? Yes. Can I pull stills for print? Yes. Can I use jarred camera movement without problematic jello? Yes. Can I mix colour temps in post? Yes. No problem. Can I lug it through a run and gun situation? Can my wife fly it on her Steadicam for prolonged periods? Yes. It weighs almost nothing.

    Epic is the camera that never says no to you.

    Recently, I discovered a new reason to love 5K, even though, with all due respect to Jim, the probability that our work, which has a very short shelf life, would ever need to be 4K, for at at least another 2 years, maybe more, is exactly 0% .

    I am working on a project that requires tracking tiny objects within the frame for compositing. If it were shot at 1080p, even 2K, there would be no way the tracker would have enough pixels to be able to follow these objects well. With Epic? Once again, the camera is saying yes to me, not "No and why don't you just shoot more rack focus and slider shots at f1.2, it's what all the kids are doing".

    Also, let me tell you, greenscreen at 5K is a thing of beauty. You didn't see any greenscreen in those "famous" 5D videos like Reverie. There's a good reason for that.

    The above is also why I do not trust Zacuto's Why You Should Continue to Buy Expensive DSLR Kits From Us Camera Shoot-Out. It's a test of how a DSLR can be adequate, and shows you next to nothing of when it breaks down, shows you nothing of situations when only two cameras - F65 and any Red model, would actually still say yes to you. (Not to mention it's a test that doesn't really understand RAw workflow at all - but I digress.)

    Our Epic does not do the hard work of cinematography for us, does not do the casting, location search, production management, styling, visual research, nor lighting. But I love it for another thing it DOESN'T do. Say "No" to me.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Kwan Khan's Avatar
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    Few more .......
    These companies don't sell you what you want. They lead you down a path of buying new camera after new camera from them. People are tired of this behavior, and it's being echoed across the internet. Upgrading a camera is cheaper than buying new cameras... over and over. Releasing a brand new Canon/Sony products every 5 months isn't the right way.

    Off the topic ... (lol)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=RCT-YMgjm9k#!
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  3. #3  
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    I agree with what you say about Red and their products ...

    I just think you unfairly discount DSLR's. I think I've shot perhaps one shot at f/1.2 and maybe five shots at f/1.4. I generally shoot it at f/2.8 - 5.6, just like any S35 system.

    I think DSLR's kicked ass... but you also got what you paid for. When they came around in 2008/2009 that was freaking amazing value. You mention the EX1. I have EX1 footage right next to 7D footage on a timeline today, and the 7D footage is much much better than the XDCAM footage. Lower noise, smarter more gradable color, and much better skin tones, plus a higher DR. I shot both on the same day.

    The Black Magic camera just blew them all into the past though.

    I mean, of course a $70000 camera system is going to enable all sorts of stuff a $2000 camera system can't. The BMD camera has a small sensor, and a weird form factor thats going to suck more than people think, and it is still low resolution.

    The FS700 is a great product, especially if you think of where it came from. 1080p 120fps? That's all a lot of people want. Throw an outboard recorder in there, and you have a lot of happy campers. If the 4K thing ever happens with that camera, even if it requires special hardware, it will be awesome. Its hard to believe Sony is making it.

    Then there is Scarlet and Epic. There are just no words. Every time I see my footage on one of those cameras I fall in love with image making all over. Its a huge leap past Red One, which itself was a huge leap over just about everything on the market today.

    Red has changed the industry. If Red never existed there would probably be no Black Magic camera. If Red doesn't exist, Sony never delivers F3 or FS700 or anything nearly like them before 2020, preferring to "protect" F23 and F35 for almost a decade.

    Red has really been important to me, and I don't want to diminish what they've done.

    I think when you underplay what else is out there, you really manage to underestimate how much Red has changed everything.

    Red ... more incredible than you think.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Andrae Palmer's Avatar
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    The EPIC is a great camera... but what it can't DO is make someone understand the features and workflow just by pressing a power button.

    16 bit color depth, RAW, HDRx, REDcode compression ratios, proper exposure, color space, color science, color grading, proper monitoring, data transfer rates over various connections, codecs, software vs hardware debayer algorithms, GPU rendering, CUDA vs OpenCL, debayer resolution and quality... all these still take research which thankfully this forum is of great assistance in learning everything. I guess consumerism by itself... the EPIC by itself... is nothing without the curiosity to learn by the operator. Evangelism of any sort regarding cameras should focus more on an atmosphere of learning and shooting than on the camera itself.

    Find and master the tool that is most effective for your path. Any mention of DSLRs, ARRI Alexa, Sony F65 etc... should also consider the path. So no need to knock DSLRs unless you have another tool that is more efficient for what they are good for. No need to knock an ARRI Alexa unless you have another tool that is better than what it's good for. Of course it takes learning and experience to understand the competitive advantages of each camera, job and post workflows.

    A 70k EPIC is not an affordable tool that most can afford for weddings, event coverage and no/micro budget short/feature films. I often now hear other EPIC camera owners knocking certain things like still lenses for example... to me that's very silly... because in many situations a still lens can beat a cinema lens... same vice versa... you just have to understand the path in which the device will be utilized to see advantages and disadvantages of one tool over another.

    That's like a food lover telling everyone to eat caviar and escargot every day. EVERYONE now is capturing images at their financial capacity, technical understanding and experience. One meal... especially one that's highly priced cannot serve the nutrient requirements of everyone.
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  5. #5  
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    I'm not saying everyone should shoot on Epic all the time, and I gladly shoot on Alexa when it's pushed by the client - I'm just stating what defines, for me, a great cinematography tool: The less it says "No" to me, the better it is.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Paul Russell's Avatar
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    Last year I decided to differentiate myself by dropping DSLR and going RED, simply because turning up at shoots with a 5D was embarrassing when the stylist, art director and runner were also saying "Hey, I've got one of those". It took a while and a few more thousand in computer upgrades and a Red Rocket, but it's already paying off and I'd never go back to DSLR. Last weekend I was operator on my first TV commercial for the Indian market, and there's no way I'd have got that job with a 5D. From here it's all up, and that's due to the Epic's flexibility, capabilities and performance. You can't compare that in a Zacuto shootout.
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