Soft, Noisy and lots of Artifacts

[Gunleik Groven]

I like to share my experience with the relative soft look of r3ds when I can so that other people can compare and contrast their experiences with mine. I never claim to be right or wrong, just true to what I have seen.

I have edited footage from all three varieties of Red cameras, just about every glass configuration one can imagine, and of course my very own Scarlet with Canon glass. One thing that has been absolutely consistent throughout the years is that Red footage is relatively soft at 100%, and even somewhat soft at 80%. I have never seen a tack sharp r3d, ever. That said, I would love to see one, if anyone would like to post? When I use the expression "tack sharp" I am comparing it to what one would get from shooting raw with a mediocre DSLR and mediocre glass, simply because it is a fair comparison. Therefore, I never can personally blame choice of glass when it comes to people encountering problems like these with their Red cameras. There is a period of adjustment and acceptance in the world of Red, but when one takes the time to adjust and accept, then things can get beautiful quick!

Weird.

Cannot say that I recognize this or that we sharpen RED footage allmost "ever".
Trying to think through te series I have supervised, and this does not ring a bell... :)

[Hans von Sonntag]

I have edited footage from all three varieties of Red cameras, just about every glass configuration one can imagine, and of course my very own Scarlet with Canon glass. One thing that has been absolutely consistent throughout the years is that Red footage is relatively soft at 100%, and even somewhat soft at 80%. I have never seen a tack sharp r3d, ever. That said, I would love to see one, if anyone would like to post? When I use the expression "tack sharp" I am comparing it to what one would get from shooting raw with a mediocre DSLR and mediocre glass, simply because it is a fair comparison.

It's a culture thing. When you've grown up with 35mm, 16mm and endless telecine sessions that ended up in SD you have a different sense to sharpness than someone who is used to video or DSLRs. None is better or worse, it's different. The equation Red=soft is as old as Red is on she market; and, IMHO, determined by taste. Nonetheless, cameras are different, so is their sharpness. Arri, for instance has a tad more sharpness in their debayer than RED, the Si2k is even softer. Adding electronic sharpness in the finishing process is done oftentimes, regardless which camera was used.

All this, however, has nothing to do with the OP's problems. I would listen to David Mullen's suggestion and get a second camera and additional sharp glass.

As a personal side-note: Red's compression has problems with high detailed scenes such as parks and trees. When I shoot at 3K and a compression lower than 1:5 I get clunky artifacts in the shadows. The problem is easy to solve: don't lower compression down to 1:8 or even lower. But you've all done that. Listen to David Mullen.

Hans

[Ulf Krentz]

hmm, the OPs results are not far from mine. I never posted this here but I was quite disappointed when I saw my first footage from the Scarlet. Spoke to a buddy next to me (with EPIC and Scarlet) and he told me I´ll get used to it, it´s quite in line. Not that you cannot get it sharp in post, but at least quite noisy when sharpened, you can even see some noise in that test chart shot from David Mullen in this thread (I give the scarlet enough light, expose around 500ISO) ,so what Marie wrote seems reasonable to me. On the other hand, I´d love to get sharper results straight out of the camera - @Michael, please keep us informed about your findings.

Thank you, Ulf

[Hans von Sonntag]

hmm, the OPs results are not far from mine. I never posted this here but I was quite disappointed when I saw my first footage from the Scarlet.

Ulf, where of you live in Germany. May be it makes sense to track your issues down with a second pair of eyes?

Hans

[Ulf Krentz]

Hello Hans,

Thank you. Sent you an email.

Cheers, Ulf

[Brad Allen]

ok. Will do. RMA it is. I want to get this 100% right.

Sounds like you're doing the right thing. Even after that 3rd Backfocus, things are looking way too soft to me.

If nothing else - at least it might help shed some answers!

[Chuck Z]

Testing low compression ratio's:
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/Wide_6_to_1.jpg
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/55mm_6_to_1.jpg
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/wide_3_to_1.jpg

I wouldnt surprise me at all if there was some bad compression thing happening. Seems to me the most likely problem as I've noticed it from the first shot I took with this camera. Wouldnt surprise me either if the compression issue is related to the softness. I've tested this camera with 3 different lenses that I have access to, tried a back focus adjustment and everything else that can be done save a side-by-side test which I'll do tomorrow.

While all of your other pictures look off, these look totally fine. There's plenty of natural detail in the 3:1 compression shot.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

There's still something very wrong in your debayer or capture in the 3:1 though:



That's not optical. Did you rescale the image or apply sharpening or something? Nothing should create that artifact though.

[Matt Ryan]

There's still something very wrong in your debayer or capture in the 3:1 though:



That's not optical. Did you rescale the image or apply sharpening or something? Nothing should create that artifact though.

looks like a burnt in rectangle.

[Michael McCaffrey]

There's still something very wrong in your debayer or capture in the 3:1 though:



That's not optical. Did you rescale the image or apply sharpening or something? Nothing should create that artifact though.

Which image did you pull this off of? I looked at the "wide_3to1.jpg" and didnt see it. Hrmmm. Id like to find the original image so I can send it to Red. Sent the camera in for RMA today. They say 3-5 days to evaluate it and then they will service it or send me another one. May not have a camera again until June 4th! crazy. 2.5 weeks lost to a bad camera and Im supposed to be shooting days later. I dont want this one back and this is just one more reason why.