Just watched first part of zacuto shootout....

[Peter Moretti]

Mitch,

AMEN! I have nothing to add to what you have said. It is perfectly spot on.


Steve,

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but none of us need a camera shootout or three part documentary to understand that the DP, crew, actors and story matter a whole hell of a lot. And I challenge anyone to find a single post on Reduser, Cinematography.com, DVXUser, DVInfo, etc. that says a good camera is all you need to make a good film. Such a thought is so nonsensical, that I can't recall one instance of it being expressed.

What is nonsensical to say is that cameras spanning a range from the iPhone to the F65 are all reasonably similar.

What would have been very useful is to talk about the production and post production requirements of each camera. How do I work around not having timecode and HD-SDI for the iPhone, GH2 and 7D? How tightly can I get into spaces with the Red Epic vs the Alexa? How much storage and computer power do I need to post an F65 vs a C300? Those are the types of differences a production can use to make a decision. I have a friend who will be shooting a low budget feature in November. I also have a potential hookup w/ an F65. But the production and post requirements for that camera make Red's Scarlet a better choice.


Red,

Solely based on image, it's hard to argue that the F65 isn't the finest digital cinema camera in the world right now. Not saying the Reds aren't awesome, they certainly are! And there are a lot of reasons to choose a Red over any of its competitors. But Part 3 of the Zacuto Shootout only repeats what I've seen in other examples of F65 footage.

[Erich Roland]

Mitch,

AMEN! I have nothing to add to what you have said. It is perfectly spot on.


Steve,

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but none of us need a camera shootout or three part documentary to understand that the DP, crew, actors and story matter a whole hell of a lot. And I challenge anyone to find a single post on Reduser, Cinematography.com, DVXUser, DVInfo, etc. that says a good camera is all you need to make a good film. Such a thought is so nonsensical, that I can't recall one instance of it being expressed.

What is nonsensical to say is that cameras spanning a range from the iPhone to the F65 are all reasonably similar.

What would have been very useful is to talk about the production and post production requirements of each camera. How do I work around not having timecode and HD-SDI for the iPhone, GH2 and 7D? How tightly can I get into spaces with the Red Epic vs the Alexa? How much storage and computer power do I need to post an F65 vs a C300? Those are the types of differences a production can use to make a decision. I have a friend who will be shooting a low budget feature in November. I also have a potential hookup w/ an F65. But the production and post requirements for that camera make Red's Scarlet a better choice.

.

I agree Peter. To produce a "camera shoot-out" project and then skew the conversation (or take away) to the idea that different cameras can essentially all look the same is a silly result. A different documentary (and title) talking to great DP's about whats important to them is a very worth story to tell, but this should not be the result from a "camera shoot-out" film. Most who watch have come to learn what the differences in these cameras are and take away helpful knowledge about what situations would you want to choose one camera over the other.... this should have been this project's goal.

[Lliam Worthington]

Hi Steve,

I just wanted to say thanks I really enjoyed it. To be honest I didn't find it very educational or revealing tech wise. And if the point was it's the man behind the camera.... then seeing what I really wanted to see most, the DP's work there lighting set ups and some of the post/grading of each camera too, would have been ideal. But I guess I'm then asking for too big a series :)

However watching the light, joy and intelligence in the eyes of many of the greats you interviewed was very inspiring for me. Also the energy, effort and goodwill that's gone in was very apparent and should always be applauded I believe.

Best Wishes

Lliam

[Peter Moretti]

+1.

[steve weiss]

Well, actually I think democratized is more apt that socialized. Democratized implies that everyone has an equal opportunity to create content, but what they do with it is up to them: there is still an onus on the individual. While Socialized to me implies that everyone is given the exact same opportunity and that their choices don't matter.

But that's just me.



Thanks, and I agree with you. To me, one of the downfall's of today's youth is their sincere belief that armed with a laptop and a dream they can accomplish anything. Hard work seems like something that can be skipped over if know the right apple shortcut. Time and time again, I've encountered young 20 year olds who want to "Direct" or "DP" and genuinely believe they are entitled to that responsibility now. Because they have passion. We are in the age of the innovator, where simply having an idea makes you an artist.

I still miss the days only 10 years ago when I started in TV and was told to shut the fuck up and collect tapes. I learned more from those ornery old dudes than I ever did from an overpriced laptop.

I like you Nick, I haven't been in the best of health lately and you made me laugh with the shut the fuck up and collect the tapes LOL. I've have to admit in my 29 years in the biz I've been there on both sides of that comment. Now I'm the ornery old dude to my 25 year old staffers. What you say about democratizaton makes sense, I was just screwing with you because it's said so much and I'm not sure anyone knows WTF it means but what you say actually makes sense. You need to write an article with the title "simply having an idea does not make you an artist". Having an idea makes you a person. Executing an idea makes you a person with follow through. Executing it well makes you average. Executing it brilliantly make you an impressive. Executing it brilliantly consistently makes you an artist. Being an artist does not mean you will have the opportunity to become Stephen Spielberg. Luck, timing, determination and drive are just as important. I tried to stress this a lot in this Revenge program. So well put Nick Morrison of Brooklyn. If you would like to write that story, I'd like to have it as content on my website, I'd be thrilled to hire you to do it, if you are interested drop me a note steve@zacuto.com

[Sergio Perez]

In the beginning of this discussion I also called to what I think is not the most appropriate title for the series.

As for the cameras and their performances... Ive had a lot of experience with dslr cameras to shoot video. Comparing them to a Red Epic and say they are "similar" is ridiculous. I "had" to use Dslrs to shoot specific jobs, but i I had the Epic, media and batteries for those DSLR shoots, i wouldn' t hesitate. Right now Im grading a TV Commercial that is about 90% 1D mk Iv and 7d, 10 % Epic. Absolutely night and day. Im having tons of aliasing issues with some shots, for example. Color is much worse, specially the gradation.

As someone that has always shot with lower end cameras trying to make them shine , shooting Epic, or Alexa is a completely different result than shooting DSLR's. What dslr's brought to the table, however, is the creative freedom of using DOF and all the advantages of large sensor cameras. It allowed for the lower end to actually show their talent in controling the image and the perception of each shot through DOF. It also brought higher sensitivity low light shooting, allowing cheaper lighting equipment to be used. But if you put an Epic film shot by a great DP vs a shoot by the same dp on a 7D, you willl get similar framing and "painting" of the frame, but it will definitely look worse. And he would have to do workarounds and other time and money consuming tricks to make both shots look"similar". Its not apples to apples, here, Im sorry to say. But it was an entertaining series!

[Mariano T.]

I love epic, but i can see from a producers perspective why they take the alexa.

just a week ago a friend of mine told me something that made me decide against red, I almost ordered an epic X - he owns TWO red epics, one M and an X, he works with red cameras since the red one came out, and always with the aim to shoot his own first feature, and now, when he finally was ready, BOTH cameras broke down, forcing him to rent an epic. and the other project (commercial) I did postpro on two weeks ago had the same problem, again, a broken epic, the production now is battling with insurance.

sorry, but if reliability was taken into account, too, red would be on the last place, I fear.

[António Fagundes]

The truth of the matter is that Red not only sells cameras, but as their marketing strategy, they sell dreams as well. Convincing people that owning a Red will take them all the way up there, owing the best, most powerful and most technologically advanced camera in the world its all you need. Almost like if you want to be a 'serious' DP, buy a Red and 'just add water'...

Not quite so...

Not a Red, not a Sony, not a Arri, and certainly not a DSLR...

Red could (and in certain ways is) be such a leader of everything good about film making, but unfortunately, ever since their humble beginnings, they've chosen to infect their costumers, especially young people and older wannabe's, with what is basically a lie. And this 'lie' I suspect is going to cost their reputation dearly. Its so sad, that they ever thought that they had to use people's dreams to make more money. No camera is going to make anyone a better DP, their eyes are! Their knowledge, their experience, their constant failed attempts, their mistakes, their successes, and most of all their perseverance and constant hard work!

Before Jzanuz even shot his first amateur feature film, he had already shot more than 30 short films, all this before there was even the democratization of cameras!!!

What kind of word processor did Gore Vidal use, does anyone know?

Does it really freaking matter?

[Brandon J.F.]

Before Jzanuz even shot his first amateur feature film, he had already shot more than 30 short films, all this before there was even the democratization of cameras!!!

I don't really get your point. Helping make cameras affordable does not negate the need to learn your craft. Rather it allows more people the opportunity to learn. This is a good thing.

[Lliam Worthington]

Antonio's right. All I read on RED user is people constantly saying that you don't need to practice or do anything at all to be a great film maker. Just own a RED camera.
Just search under "total bullshit" and see how many threads pop up with this statement, you'd be amazed.

I mean sure there's the odd 425 page thread by David Mullen, and a host of other threads about the importance of everything from lighting to sound and colour correction but it's just smoke and mirrors to disguise this empty dream factory, selling it's shady illicit imaging tools and false promises to snare the unwary and prey on the vulnerable.
Yeah I'm talking to you Ridley!

I can't seem to find the page anywhere, but I'm pretty damn sure I remember JIm saying my scarlet would not only light, but frame and even rehearse my actors.
I was admittedly skeptical at first, but then I saw the latest RED promo saying if I just put up the cash for a camera, success was assured, and I signed on.
But now I'm struggling to find the "light my set button" it's true. Though I'm sure it's hear in the menu somewhere... Right alongside the "make me a genius DP function" that RED keeps raving on about.

Talk about "Not quite so."