ADOBE HAVE DONE IT !!!! REAL TIME R3D editing & grading on a LAPTOP!

[Les C.]

Now is the time for EVERYONE to make their feature requests. RED users are in the minority and honestly the feature requests have been a bit quiet from the RED community. If you want features or improvements to existing CS6 workflows...now is the time to request them. I know I have a few myself :)

Wes

Wes - I'd like several things.

1. A way to apply AE or OFX plug-ins as the first layer or node. The only way we can use something like NeatVideo as the first operation, is to apply it in AE/Premiere and then output DPX that SG can read. We can't send the R3Ds to SG and then apply our effects as the first layer or node in SG.

2. In some perfect world, if SG could act as a layer in AE, we'd be able to do things to the R3D before and after SG operates on it - working the entire time from R3D files.

3. I'd personally like to see a power-user mode with a node interface for SG.

You compete against Resolve that has nodes, and many are used to Nuke/Fusion and other interfaces that are node based. It's like pulling teeth to work in a non-node based interface - and that applies to AE also - AE really needs nodes. There's zero downside to having nodes available, but a lot of downside to not having nodes at all.

BTW - very glad to see your interest here - even if RED users may be a minority of CS6 owners. If Apple had had the same interest in their user's needs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Of course, there's a certain cache in saying Fincher's Dragon Tattoo was stabilized in AE, and if you court RED users and make it easy to use R3Ds in AE/Premiere/SG, it certainly can't hurt your reputation as so many of the big movies use RED.

Many purchases are made on perception.

[Mark Toia]

without knowing more, it sounds to me like heat issues. Apple Unibody Laptops will throttle down the GPU once it hits 170-175F. It sounds like he hits this wall, and then the GPU can't keep up because it is getting throttle down by OS X.

Known issue if you have ever tried playing a game on a Macbook Pro

I have a funny feeling your onto something there... but when editing in FCP.. no probe at all with the same footage...
Im sure ADOBE are going to solve this.

All i can say is, if APPLE CAN DO IT, they can...

PS. Background support from ADOBE has been amazing. I have had long phone conversations with a couple of ADOBE guys very very interested in solving problems. I'm impressed.
They couldn't fix mine.. but they will.

[Les C.]

I have a funny feeling your onto something there... but when editing in FCP.. no probe at all with the same footage...
Im sure ADOBE are going to solve this.

All i can say is, if APPLE CAN DO IT, they can...

PS. Background support from ADOBE has been amazing. I have had long phone conversations with a couple of ADOBE guys very very interested in solving problems. I'm impressed.
They couldn't fix mine.. but they will.

FCP isn't stressing the cores or GPU nearly as much (translate that as fully utilizing them).

Look in Apple's process monitor (I forget what it's called, as my Mac isn't up right now) and compare cpu utilization.

There are tools for GPU utilization also, depending on your GPU - I"m sure someone else will chime in.

[Steve Dent]

I've always had certified NVidia hardware (Quadro FX4800) for graphics, and have had nary a problem on a PC.

[Mike Garrick]

@ Wes

My comments regard Speed grade at the moment, as it is still very early days for me with CS6. Some jobs can afford a pro colorist others can't. I guess the work flow below is for the can'ts.

Currently Speed grade appears designed to be used at the end of the post pipe..the last stage before final. Maybe fine for some but not me. Working with agencies & the like this is not an option for client work as they want to see what they're getting throughout the process & not at the end .

Hence like Les, I dream of Speed Grade residing in Premier or AE. Where we can get preliminary grading done, sort out what we need & what we don't , move onto effect work, than fine tune, then fine grade tweeking of the images. Presently this workflow cannot happen on Speed grade (it appears to me). Maybe if we knew where the renders reside & if they can be updated or just relink the the updated media to AE & Premier would be great as a workaround at the moment.

What I really need & I suspect others as well, is a process where we can grade during rough cut & then continually refine or update the grading process by bouncing around with the different adobe platforms whilst not losing filters & attributes from the previous platforms. I guess you could call it a process of continual updating. For example rough grade during preliminary cut with Premier then move over to AE for effecting, decide present grade on an effect scene is to cool, regrade shot with SP within AE. Happy with AE move back to Premier for agency politics if font should be Helvetica Neu or Verdana, tweek to desired/ undesired art direction move the logo 6 pixels to the right then decide it was better where it was. Then fine grade with secondaries before going final & out. Hence my reference to a 2 way street with data flowing in both directions. Personally I also believe, like offline/online, the days of round tripping are drawing to a close.

I'm sure others can put or have put it better than me & I'll leave the technical stuff to others, but that's my 2 cents for now ; )

[Lin]

Thanks Mike,

we hear you loud and clear.

Lin

[martin la cour]

Sounds like a dream!

[William Robinette]

@ Wes,

Some jobs can afford a pro colorist others can't. I guess the work flow below is for the can'ts.

Currently Speed grade appears designed to be used at the end of the post pipe..the last stage before final. Maybe fine for some but not me. Working with agencies & the like this is not an option for client work as they want to see what they're getting throughout the process & not at the end .

What I really need & I suspect others as well, is a process where we can grade during rough cut & then continually refine or update the grading process by bouncing around with the different adobe platforms whilst not losing filters & attributes from the previous platforms. I guess you could call it a process of continual updating. For example rough grade during preliminary cut with Premier then move over to AE for effecting, decide present grade on an effect scene is to cool, regrade shot with SP within AE. Happy with AE move back to Premier for agency politics if font should be Helvetica Neu or Verdana, tweek to desired/ undesired art direction move the logo 6 pixels to the right then decide it was better where it was. Then fine grade with secondaries before going final & out. Hence my reference to a 2 way street with data flowing in both directions. Personally I also believe, like offline/online, the days of round tripping are drawing to a close.

This please. If Speed Grade could act almost more as an effect on a layer then a "Stop, export, import, grade, render, reconform *oh wait you wanted changes, repeat steps 1-6*" Especially for those of us who are doing a lot in one box this would be wonderful.

[shashbugu]

HMM its a double edged sword. I tried speedgrade before Adobe bought it. it was a solid Application then, albeit the learning curve was somewhat steep. Speed grade has to be a standalone application . It works wonders with Red and other Raw footage stand alone.
Because of all the ther features available in PPro, AE, Lightroom and PS, Speedgrade feels very crippled. I have yet to successfully load an EDL into Speedgrade without an error message. I've given up. on other threads my request for decent features in speedgrade will hopefully be taken into account. I personally have a strong feeling this is not speedgrade NX Api, but rather the new lumetri which still being developed.

Adobe is much becoming one of those companies forcing you to use a program you might have no need for. What do i mean here. AE is great but it a specialized program, 70% of editors out there want to get into their NLE and Finnish in their NLE, so features like text, color correction and grading, stabilizing, keying, simple tracking, simple composting, scopes, simple masking, robust media management and archiving, monitoring, Sound mixing, and Audio timecode sync should be built in. Products like AE with dynamic link are highly specialized and jobs with no major effects needs have to sent to Ae for simple effects.
lets backtrack,

Since CS4 it has taken adobe a solid five years to implement these very basic things that have existed in FCP time in memorial. Why do you think folks are clinging to FCP and wont let go no matter what? Fast forward CS5, blazing fast editing speed with the mercury playback engine, an uncompressed 32 bit floating engine, accelerated 32bit effects and full support for R3D. Problem is Cs5 was temperamental, 3rd party plugins were not accelerated, the color correction tools and scopes were not really 32bit or even 16bit plus they were extremely clunky, the accelerated ultra keyer is 8 bit, . Hello CS6! how are you?
Well, new color correction tool interface, but still no 32 bit scopes or cc engine, still no acceleration in 3rd party effects, still no basic, tracking, still no media management, till no basic masking, still temperamental.

Why cant Adobe have integrated an accelerated speedgrade lite in premiere and After effects? its basic common sense if you want people to fall in love with your new grading application let them use part of it right in their NLE. with one click switch to the CC Workspace, boom SG lite opens up right in ppro. Color correction, masking, tracking, all with mercury playback engine. We could edit, warp stabilize our footage, reduce noise, add simple text, transitions, clean up and sync audio and monitor all in real-time with the Mercury playback engine for simple client supervised edits. For more complex projects all the various specialized apps become necessary.

I have looked at many forums, my list covers every Premiere Pro users request. Real simple.

I love adobe and continue to use PPro, and Audition every day, now mostly for edits only. I have to rely on Smoke, Resolve, and honestly now use the dreaded FCPX for a host of things including real time Redgiant Looks playback. SERIOUSLY>

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Whether it be layers or nodes, it's about time that grading gets more neatly integrated into the editorial process. While the nuances and requirements of first rate color grading may remain a highly specialized craft, integration into the pipeline needs to move beyond the dark ages. CMX 3600 EDLs in 2012, really?

I also agree that one of the real draws of FCP was how many things you could do without leaving it. I figured out how to do 98% of what I used to do in AE right in the motion tab in FCP. Great timesaver and as others have noted, made changes much simpler. It always made sense to me that I could select any element from the timeline, click on a tab and see it's properties, then alter them as desired. The 3-way color corrector filter in FCP was limited in scope, but it sure was easy to manage...

NLE as the core app with specialty apps running "on board" as plug ins/filters/nodes sure seems like the holy grail. When you need to send a cut out for a grading session, what if the NLE project files could be sent out to Baselight, Scratch, Resolve, etc with all parameters included, then round tripped back to editorial with only the image metrics altered? Forget XML, ALE and the rest of the alphabet soup: if you want to sell a color grading solution in 2012 and beyond it needs to be able to take a project file from Adobe, AVID, Apple, etc and just work.

Cheers - #19