Thread: Web Series vs TV Series

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  1. #1 Web Series vs TV Series 
    Senior Member Mark Collins's Avatar
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    Hey All! So right now I'm in the process of working on two web series, prepping them for shooting in a couple of weeks, and I've got to wondering if perhaps web series are better, or can be better than TV series.

    Now when I say better I am not strictly speaking content wise. There are and have been some absolutely stellar TV shows, and there have been a few really amazing web series. There however, have also been a lot of terrible TV shows and a lot of horrible web series. When I say better I'm thinking in terms of production, and how you can get the content out to the people that want to watch it.

    It seems to be a growing trend that more and more web series are entering the public consciousness, and as such, there are some that are getting budgets as large as any TV show. Just this past weekend I did some rigging on a show called Hemlock Grove, currently being shot in Toronto by Eli Roth, but it's a Netflix show, meaning there's no backing studio or broadcaster at all. And this is a full union show with everything you would expect from a full union show. There have been a few others shot here that are equally as large, but are 10-20 minute episodes.

    So looking at the merits of both, my thinking is thus: Web series will ultimately trump TV series as the line between TV and web becomes increasingly blurred. It it impossible to pitch to a network these days unless you have a web component to your show. And a lot of shows seem to be having short webisodes to go along with the main series. What this means is that anyone can create a web series, with just as much exposure, if not more, than a TV series, on any budget, and without going through a pitch process. The two web series I am currently working on, we're planning on shooting them guerrilla style, even though both could easily be done as a much larger production, and with a little luck, subsequent seasons will be. The greatest aspect of working on these is that, at the end of the day, there's no network to report back to and to please. Our ratings are going to be the view counts on youtube. Our money for future seasons will be from Google Adsense and from sponsors and merch sales. And while TV has a similar kind of deal with advertising and licensing, it seems limited by the fact that getting a network TV series off the ground is a hellish process.

    With a TV series, you are limited by available timeslots and competing shows. With a web series, if I wanted to upload my episodes every Monday at 9, then I will upload them every Monday at 9. And once they're up, they're up for people to watch whenever they want.

    What I'm writing this for is to hear people's thought on which one is going to "win" in the long run, and why people think that one is better than the other.

    Thanks
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  2. #2  
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    hey Mark .. also in Toronto. I have worked on a few pilot episodes for web series and they had potential to be very well produced but its the business model thats lagging. Its difficult to get the revenue stream to bring any real production value to a web based series. Its going to change.. it is changing slowly. I hope the shows you are working on can break that barrier. Have a full up Scarlet package here when you need a second camera.

    cheers
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  3. #3  
    Mark,

    The Hemlock Grove series for Netflix is being lensed by Steven Poster on Canon C300 and some 7Ds.

    I am about to shoot another Netflix series which is the reboot of "Arrested Development" for Netflix, Imagine and Fox TV. Union but on a strange new contract. Not really New Media but something akin to Cable MOW.

    Fincher also is producing and directed the pilot for a Netflix series in NYC. He is using 2 Epics. I will be using 3 Epics.....

    Remember that after Netflix airs it there is a chance for syndication... that is why Fox is involved in mine.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Mark Collins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lyons Collister, ASC View Post
    Mark,

    The Hemlock Grove series for Netflix is being lensed by Steven Poster on Canon C300 and some 7Ds.

    I am about to shoot another Netflix series which is the reboot of "Arrested Development" for Netflix, Imagine and Fox TV. Union but on a strange new contract. Not really New Media but something akin to Cable MOW.

    Fincher also is producing and directed the pilot for a Netflix series in NYC. He is using 2 Epics. I will be using 3 Epics.....

    Remember that after Netflix airs it there is a chance for syndication... that is why Fox is involved in mine.
    Nice.

    Yeah, I heard they were shooting canon for Hemlock Grove, and usually around ISO 3200. You wouldn't know it from the amount of rigging we were doing, but for where it;s going, ususing that prosumer level of camera is perfect.

    And Ted I totally agree that the business model is changing. There are a few New Media Funds out there, but for the most part their still mostly based in TV with a significant web component to complement it. I personally have Google Adsense set up, but it's not an exact science and there no information of what exactly their rates are.

    The business model that I've seen that seems to be working pretty well is what the guys over at RoosterTeeth have set up for their various web series, mainly Red vs Blue. They use a system whereby Sponsors get early access to new episodes, as well as extra content, extended versions of episodes, stuff like that. They also supplement that revenue stream with a store and advertising. From the sounds of it, it seems to be working out pretty well.

    And I may take you up on that Red offer one day....
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Brad Webb's Avatar
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    Every day cable and satellite companies lose subscribers as more people switch to watching tv shows on the Internet. Everyone under age 16 has grown up watching YouTube their whole life. At some point this two will converge and tv as we know it will be dead. Although there's still not much money in web content. You're lucky if you can get $1,000 per minute.
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  6. #6  
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    Hey Mark.

    There was a lot of talk this spring at Banff about branded sponsorship of web series as a way to cover budgets. In the case of Netflix (who will underwrite the show and sell it through their 'store') or the big media conglomerates who will create online content as a loss leader for their cable offerings; budgets for the producers can be healthy. In a sit-down with the CBC their ask was for existing web series with social media components already in place that could be fleshed out for TV, rather than pitching TV that could have am online component built around it.

    But the indy guys will struggle to make back their money through distribution deals that rely on ad revenue split - Everyone wants -needs- the video content for their online portal, but what they are willing to pay is criminal.

    In 2007 I started to turn my back on TV advertising production to create a couple of short-form online lifestyle series (cooking & travel), based on the premise that with distribution and ad split it could work. At about the same time a lot of others started with the same ideas. Over the years I've watched as countless producers started out strong, blew huge wads of cash and then flamed out because the revenue stream never materialized or wasn't enough to sustain. I quickly realised that the best way forward was to integrate brands into the content - and I now only create content (with the exception of idea tests) once I have sponsors on board.
    90% of the rev stream is from brand sponsors, and the rest is from distribution ad splits.

    Yes there are breakout success stories that hit it huge, but that's like lightening in a bottle… Not trying to be negative - but rather trying to say that you can make a boatload of money if you understand that the current online revenue split business model doesn't work.

    In the end I've gone back to shooting :30sec TV spots, except for the interwebs and they are 2-3 minutes long. Happier than ever, more creative control, and more money.
    Can't believe I get paid to do this.
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  7. #7  
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    I think Glen and I are on the same page as much as we wish it wasn't that way. I have been in the business a very long time. I have worked on a few branded web series but the Brand clients approve everything and the content gets watered down. The viewers see through all the gratuitous product placement. It is and will change. it has to! The mediums will continue to merge and the money will follow the viewers. Projects like Hemlock Grove are the beginning of that shift. Exciting times.
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