Working in TV - loosing Epic work to the other brand due to transcoding costs/ time

[Dane Henry]

This is a case of wrong camera for the job in my opinion...you want Prores files from your Epic, then why use the epic---i'd rather use F900 or ex1 something like this...in fact i think i'd get FAR better results from f900--i know i would right out of the camera. IF you have ever seen a flat RAW image out of Epic and SDI port...well, it's flat and desaturated and i think (not sure) the color space is not even 422 ( i could be wrong here, so correct me if i am).

Johnny-
Why use the Epic? Because it has a certain look, there is more that separates the look of the epic from the f900 than just RAW...

You do understand that you can set a look in camera or even better in RCX and import it in to the camera?
I use the Atomos Samurai for quick turnaround for Broadcast deliverables. Yes, the SDI out is 422. I load a punchier look in to the Epic/Scarlet (gets the shot close to what the client wants, their editor will do any final tweeks) and start shooting. You lose is the ability to make corrections to individual clips....But even then, if i need to, I will dial back (or increase) contrast, shadow, saturation etc IN CAMERA if a particular shot needs it.

I think the RED cameras have a place in the Broadcast world and a pro res module would go a long way in helping that...unfortunately I think it's so long overdue that the perception of the Epic/Scarlet is now really becoming that it is too much of hassle on the post end to use it for quick turnaround jobs.

-Dane

[Johnny Friday]

Guess we all have different experiences with epic and prores files...in the world of nat. hist. docs in many and i'd go so far to say as MOST cases, production just wants finished files from me. I try to get my RED's on the job if they are appropriate, but as pointed out...900 camera is an option still in use and very ENG friendly....not all productions will allow or have time for next day prores or in my case, i may not have time to sleep when doing transcodes. That said, i always try to bring along an extra hand for tanscoding and data managment. I've been down this road since 2007 wiht RED and usually just include as my fee all of the above. But in case of a job that absolutely requires prores end of day....and tight budget and no DIT or colorist....i may choose another camera like 900. So i won't disagree with what many are saying and we as shooters, DIT and colorists all know that setting a look can get you close and still requires extra work to transcode and at end of day, i'm happy with other cameras to deliver 422 out of the camera--yep, old tape, but hey, what a camera in 900 still for particular jobs...you want hi-speed, RED is the choice.

Luigi, i use the Gates Underwater Housing....a great housing to accommodate an infinite number of lenses and has precise control of gears for FIZ as well as access to Redmote. An expensive piece of kit, but if shooting under water, then an obvious choice. You can shoot as long as the battery lasts with no over heating at all. I've made 3 hours dives with it with no issue at all.

[Ned Wilson]

Our Epic definitely loses certain types of gigs to Alexa because of the workflow. Even if we go the Red Rocket route you still need someone to deal with it on set. The Pix 240 or Samurai perhaps is somewhat workable but not nearly as integrated or elegant as the Alexa Pro Rez solution. So what do we do? Sell what its advantages are: Size, HDR, High Speed and some cases Rez. But the stigma of the last year is hard to overcome. If more Epic owners include transcode as part of their package perhaps that can change the view. Other areas that Epic gained a bad rap was the delay of having to unplug and re-plug from Touch Screen to EVF. I/O module should squash this - but again past perceptions are hard to get over. That's the price of consumer beta tests. For now, if you want the gig, just tell them you'll deliver in Pro Rez at the end of the day and figure out how to make that happen. Right now, our Epic does over 95 % commercials or feature work where they either still budget a DIT with a RR or turnaround to Pro Rez can be overnight.

[Timur Civan]

I have a sonnet w/ rocket. It seems transcodes on set are part of the gig now. Obviously I try to get some $$$ for it if I can, but prores deliverables are kind of par for the course now.

[Bruce Johnson]

Just did a commercial job where the editor cut with the native R3D files in CS6. He loved it due to having 4K resolution and high color depth available as part of his editorial process. He described it as an "ah-ha" moment.

[David Mullen ASC]

Since so many shows cut on Avid, isn't there a conversion step from ProRes to DNxHD anyway for Alexa footage (not to mention Log-C to Rec.709), so why would R3D to DNxHD be any more expensive, or an extra step?

[Morning Glory]

That's the same thing I always wonder when this discussion comes up. Even the editors that do use FCP usually demand a one light REC 709 image to work on, which requires one transcoding step, just as R3D to pro res. out of Resolve they take about the same time. Always sounds like FUD to me. ARRI did a great jog with their shoot>edit campaign, with the not too subtle math equation thrown in for good measure.

[jake blackstone]

Just did a commercial job where the editor cut with the native R3D files in CS6. He loved it due to having 4K resolution and high color depth available as part of his editorial process. He described it as an "ah-ha" moment.

Just curious why "4K resolution and high color depth" would have any effect on the editorial decisions?

[jake blackstone]

Since so many shows cut on Avid, isn't there a conversion step from ProRes to DNxHD anyway for Alexa footage (not to mention Log-C to Rec.709), so why would R3D to DNxHD be any more expensive, or an extra step?

Not anymore. Alexa now supports both Prores and DNxHD as an onboard recording options. Which once again demonstrates, that ARRI listens to the users.
http://www.arri.com/news.html?articl...402e6eea5fd57e
No need to do Log-C to Rec.709 transcoding either. Just use something like, Nick Shaw's LUT plugin for real time conversion in FCP.
http://www.antlerpost.com/Plugins.html

[David Mullen ASC]

Not anymore. Alexa now supports both Prores and DNxHD as an onboard recording options. Which once again demonstrates, that ARRI listens to the users.
http://www.arri.com/news.html?articl...402e6eea5fd57e
No need to do Log-C to Rec.709 transcoding either. Just use something like, Nick Shaw's LUT plugin for real time conversion in FCP.
http://www.antlerpost.com/Plugins.html

There is no DNxHD version of 12-bit ProRes 4444 yet.

And if you are editing on the AVID, that plug-in is for FCP.

And the editors are not the only people that need Log-C to Rec.709 conversions the next day, there is the director, producers, studio, etc. so you are asking the editor to generate all of those dailies.