Resolve 9: The Good and the Bad

[Mike Halper]

So are you saying the BMD panel should be $3500?........that panel was $60,000 before BMD got hold of it.
woz

Who are you addressing Warren?
Regardless, Resolve was $150k, before BM bought DaVinci and Linux Resolve was $30K only last year and now it's free with the purchase of a panel. What's your point?

I'm sure he's addressing me. I'm not necessarily saying it should be $3,500, but I think considering there's other control surfaces out there that do more than 90% of the job of the BMD control surface AND that the other control surfaces work with more than one application, that it doesn't make sense for the BMD control surface to be 10x the price. I know a colorist who used to have the BMD control surface and sold it to get the Tangent Element for those reasons. Sure he lost some money compared to what he paid for the control surface originally, but he still netted a lot of money in his pocket with the exchange and now has a single control surface that works with Resolve AND other applications he uses. The BMD cntrol surface at such a high price just doesn't make any sense. Sure a few years ago, maybe because what other options were there (none), but this isn't a few years ago anymore. Times are changing and past pricing no longer applies.

[jake blackstone]

I'm sure he's addressing me. I'm not necessarily saying it should be $3,500, but I think considering there's other control surfaces out there that do more than 90% of the job of the BMD control surface AND that the other control surfaces work with more than one application, that it doesn't make sense for the BMD control surface to be 10x the price. I know a colorist who used to have the BMD control surface and sold it to get the Tangent Element for those reasons. Sure he lost some money compared to what he paid for the control surface originally, but he still netted a lot of money in his pocket with the exchange and now has a single control surface that works with Resolve AND other applications he uses. The BMD cntrol surface at such a high price just doesn't make any sense. Sure a few years ago, maybe because what other options were there (none), but this isn't a few years ago anymore. Times are changing and past pricing no longer applies.

As far as I'm concern, BM can charge whatever they want for their panel. It's their right. What I find objectionable is the notion, that somehow essential new features with the FULL PAID version of Resolve are no longer available, without spending additional $30K. BM trumpeted to great acclaim, that after years of requests they are finally going to offer LOG grading. Not once did they mentioned, even after the release of public beta of V9, that Log grading is practical for use only with BM panels. If one would read the new manual, it is easy to get an impression, that no other panels even exist. Every Log control explained in it is only in context of using BM panel, including use of Contrast, Pivot, Exposure and switching between Log and the traditional Lift/Gamma/Gain mode. I would be perfectly content, if LOG grading was excluded from Free Lite version of Resolve. There is a zero TECHNICAL reason, why Log grading can't be mapped to all supported panels in a matter of a few hours. It is purely a marketing decision.
I find it ironic, especially coming from a company, that says:
"The days of closed-off systems are over. I've never liked them from the start, and I'm not about to do that now just because we've got DaVinci as one of our product lines. I'd like to see it opened up to all sorts of friends and enemies, you know. They're not enemies, but competitors." and then turns around and trying to diminish usefulness of all other panels...

[Mike Halper]

As far as I'm concern, BM can charge whatever they want for their panel. It's their right. What I find objectionable is the notion, that somehow essential new features with the FULL PAID version of Resolve are no longer available, without spending additional $30K. BM trumpeted to great acclaim, that after years of requests they are finally going to offer LOG grading. Not once did they mentioned, even after the release of public beta of V9, that Log grading is practical for use only with BM panels. If one would read the new manual, it is easy to get an impression, that no other panels even exist. Every Log control explained in it is only in context of using BM panel, including use of Contrast, Pivot, Exposure and switching between Log and the traditional Lift/Gamma/Gain mode. I would be perfectly content, if LOG grading was excluded from Free Lite version of Resolve. There is a zero TECHNICAL reason, why Log grading can't be mapped to all supported panels in a matter of a few hours. It is purely a marketing decision.
I find it ironic, especially coming from a company, that says:
"The days of closed-off systems are over. I've never liked them from the start, and I'm not about to do that now just because we've got DaVinci as one of our product lines. I'd like to see it opened up to all sorts of friends and enemies, you know. They're not enemies, but competitors." and then turns around and trying to diminish usefulness of all other panels...

I agree with you that they can charge whatever they want for their panel, but when they make the log grading available only with their panel because they just don't want to program for other panels is just ridiculous and a terrible ploy to get people to buy a $30K panel that can only be used with Resolve. And like you said, it goes against the quote you provided (I don't know where it came from) as does the fact that they only allow monitoring with BMD hardware. So it essentially really is a closed system any way you look at it. Lowering the price doesn't make it open, wide compatibility does.

[Jeetu Chawla]

@ Jake Blackstone & Mike Halper:

Competition is the best thing to happen for end users... With the kind of powerful yet affordable tools available to us these days, we, "creative technicians" , are totally empowered to chose & pick the tools that suit us the most.

If BMD chooses to play their strategy around deception, then i'm sure the end user is gonna go for an alternate... or at least start looking for one!

I totally agree with you Jake... BMD have the right to price their panel at whatever they believe is the best for them... BUT keeping critical features or functionality limited to JUST their panel is not empowering the COLORIST but surely empowering the big STUDIOS!

Hope competition gets BMD to act smarter... Love working on the Resolve :)

[jake blackstone]

I agree with you that they can charge whatever they want for their panel, but when they make the log grading available only with their panel because they just don't want to program for other panels is just ridiculous and a terrible ploy to get people to buy a $30K panel that can only be used with Resolve. And like you said, it goes against the quote you provided (I don't know where it came from) as does the fact that they only allow monitoring with BMD hardware. So it essentially really is a closed system any way you look at it. Lowering the price doesn't make it open, wide compatibility does.

The quote is from the interview Grant Petty gave, explaining the impetus for buying DaVinci
http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...-what-it-means

[M Most]

What I find objectionable is the notion, that somehow essential new features with the FULL PAID version of Resolve are no longer available, without spending additional $30K. BM trumpeted to great acclaim, that after years of requests they are finally going to offer LOG grading. Not once did they mentioned, even after the release of public beta of V9, that Log grading is practical for use only with BM panels.

Jake, while I understand you're disappointed you can't use a third party panel to control some of these functions, you're going way over the line claiming that the functions aren't there or aren't practical. They ARE there as long as you're willing to pick up a mouse or a pen and tablet. Not everyone in the world is completely dependent on custom trackball panels. There are an awful lot of colorists - particularly in Europe - that use a pen and tablet as their primary interface controls. Just because it wasn't implemented in exactly the way you happened to want it doesn't mean it's not there. And to imply that it's not there is simply incorrect and misleading. I have also been one of the users who have urged them to expose at the very least the offset control on third party trackballs, and I'm also a bit disppointed that to this point they haven't done that. But I'm not going around telling everyone that the log grading toolset is "unusable." I'm using it quite well, thank you.

[jake blackstone]

Jake, while I understand you're disappointed you can't use a third party panel to control some of these functions, you're going way over the line claiming that the functions aren't there or aren't practical. They ARE there as long as you're willing to pick up a mouse or a pen and tablet. Not everyone in the world is completely dependent on custom trackball panels. There are an awful lot of colorists - particularly in Europe - that use a pen and tablet as their primary interface controls. Just because it wasn't implemented in exactly the way you happened to want it doesn't mean it's not there. And to imply that it's not there is simply incorrect and misleading. I have also been one of the users who have urged them to expose at the very least the offset control on third party trackballs, and I'm also a bit disppointed that to this point they haven't done that. But I'm not going around telling everyone that the log grading toolset is "unusable." I'm using it quite well, thank you.

To each is it's own, Mike. I grade using another software with a Wacom every day, thank you very much. No problem there. The way Resolve is set right now is not PRACTICAL, period.
For one, there is no modifier key for fine control of the Exposure control, Contrast and Pivot. Competing color grading software uses modifier key for fine control, so I don't have an issue, while using a tablet for color grading. Unfortunately, with Resolve, without this feature, it is impossible to excersize fine control with those adjustments, while using the mouse or a tablet. Scratch goes a step farther and with a modifier key turns the whole screen into a giant trackball, giving an ultimate in pen control.
Second, to switch between log and L/G/G control one needs to specifically select from the drop down menue, which is not an inconcidearable amount of time, considering, that it needs to be done, easily, hundreds of times a session. I don't like the preset Lo and High limits used with Log grading, easily causing solarization of the image. May be, if those limits could be set somewhere in preferences, it could solve this issue for me? Right now, I much prefer to use Exposure/Contrast/Pivot in conjunction with L/G/G resulting in more natural image, hence the need for a switch. Why not a keyboard shortcut?
And third, if that's the case, why even bother with the trackballs? Let's just abandon ALL panels and start grading with a mouse, problem solved...

[Marc Wielage]

Why not a keyboard shortcut?

You could consider a third-party Mac app like QuicKeys to automatically pull down the menu and make the selection for you.

And third, if that's the case, why even bother with the trackballs? Let's just abandon ALL panels and start grading with a mouse, problem solved...

I seem to recall that eFilm used just a mouse to color-time all their D.I. projects in Hollywood for about the first 3 or 4 years they were in business, and somehow, they got by. It can be done... it's just not fast and easy.

[jake blackstone]

You could consider a third-party Mac app like QuicKeys to automatically pull down the menu and make the selection for you.

Not a bad idea. I'll give it a shot. It would have been a lot easier, if this essential command was exposed right out of the box.

I seem to recall that eFilm used just a mouse to color-time all their D.I. projects in Hollywood for about the first 3 or 4 years they were in business, and somehow, they got by. It can be done... it's just not fast and easy.

Well, color timing used to be done with color wheels too:-) Can DI be done with a mouse? Sure. Will I do it? Not in a thousand years. I'll just stick with tried and true L/G/G. At least it still works on a third party panels. Not sure, though, for how long:-)

[Joel Kaye]

I would be perfectly content, if LOG grading was excluded from Free Lite version of Resolve.

Jake's got a point here.

Anything that would separate Lite from Paid a bit more would be nice for everyone who invested in Blackmagic Davinci early.

The big panels are going to be purchased by people who are in front of clients and need speed. That's a fairly small crowd. Making the difference between free and paid Resolve might be the better way to increase sales. (But hey, I'm not your accountant or marketing manager) I will check out the new camera when it comes out! That might be film student heaven. Or not. It'll be interesting for sure.