Is it possible to record audio straight into camera yet?

[Christopher Mills]

I have not used the pro I/O
However, a project that can afford it will absolutely be a project that can afford double system sound... they for damn sure can afford a pro 4 track recorder with better pre amps than any camera , and a stable timecode clock... like a 744t!


Basically, don't put your audio eggs in the picture basket

[Marc Wielage]

Basically, don't put your audio eggs in the picture basket

All I've been able to determine is that the Sennheiser G2 and G3 reeivers seem to be the worst offenders - They use the output cable as the receiver's 2nd (diversity) antenna so I am suspicious that this is part of the problem... Yet I've never had problems with any other camera or mixer (and the G2's have been really popular for scratch track to camera, as they are affordable and generally pretty reliable).

This isn't a Red problem. I would go with something more high-end like a Lectro SR or Zaxcom RX900 receiver, both of which are stereo. Those, coupled with a powerful transmitter, will yield flawless sound provided the sound department checks out the RF spectrum in the area and adjusts accordingly. It's not rocket science to do -- it just takes experience and money.

I know the G2 and G3's are popular, but my feeling is they're pretty low-end options, and you generally get what you pay for.

[George Tsai]

Basically, don't put your audio eggs in the picture basket

Nice hehehe. I'm stealing that lol:-P

[George Hupka]

This isn't a Red problem. I would go with something more high-end like a Lectro SR or Zaxcom RX900 receiver, both of which are stereo. Those, coupled with a powerful transmitter, will yield flawless sound provided the sound department checks out the RF spectrum in the area and adjusts accordingly. It's not rocket science to do -- it just takes experience and money.

I know the G2 and G3's are popular, but my feeling is they're pretty low-end options, and you generally get what you pay for.

I have to disagree, Marc, based on my experience.

No doubt the G2/G3 are not high end performers, but lots of people use these for scratch tracks every day with no problem at all, it's only with the Epic that they become completely unusable. The Epic seems to be better when I feed it a Lectro SR system, but again, who wants to spend the $ on an SR system for a scratch track?

I'm home now but unfortunately my SSD readers aren't yet, so I can't do a full test until the rest of my bags arrive.....

[George Hupka]

Well, I have no card reader so I can't do a real test, but so far it's not sounding pretty....

I hooked up the Pro I/O and connected a 442 mixer. The return feed from the camera has a pulsing hiss (pulsing differently in each channel, not together) - so, that could just be the monitor output but as I said I'll have to wait at least until next week to do a proper test. If it's being recorded this way, it would be completely uselss as primary sound, but you could get away with it as a scratch track. (Seemed to be free of clicks and pops and the other weirdness I was getting with the main camera inputs, but I haven't tried with a wireless yet!)

For old-timers, I would put this hiss at the same annoyance level as the "time code bleed" you used to hear on old BVW-400s when you rolled tape - When you know it's there you can kind of tune it out but you're not going to be using that return for anything except verifying that the camera is getting a signal. No comparison with the XLR-5 monitor output on Sony HD cameras, which is really quite clean.


In comparison, I have done jobs where I have run a Lectrosonics wireless directly into the Red One as the only audio source - fast turn-around needed, so single-system was a big deal - and although the monitoring did leave something to be desired, I never had any problems with the recorded sound (Once we got past those disastrous early firmware versions, that is.....)

I would love to hear more from others - maybe there is a bad batch of cameras out there and I have one of them. It just seems that audio with Epic has taken two steps back from where we were with Red One.

[Marc Wielage]

I have to disagree, Marc, based on my experience. No doubt the G2/G3 are not high end performers, but lots of people use these for scratch tracks every day with no problem at all, it's only with the Epic that they become completely unusable. The Epic seems to be better when I feed it a Lectro SR system, but again, who wants to spend the $ on an SR system for a scratch track?

Well... you've kind of refuted your own point. There are audio engineers who are reluctant to provide crap audio, even when it's just for a scratch track. And I have already encountered producers who go ahead and use the scratch track anyway, even when we provide separate files. At least my way... it's going to sound good either way. And the range is going to be far, far better than a G3 (using SMQ transmitters).

Note that the SR can be used for a lot of different things, not just a scratch track. An investment in good equipment is important for any pro doing serious work.

[Jude Byard]

Me three. I've done it numerous times. Would love to get the Pro I/O but I don't know how I would attach my AB plate to it. No holes.

Next problem.

[George Hupka]

I can appreciate your reluctance to "provide crap audio," but I'm mainly wearing my equipment rental hat here - on my own shoots I have always used two-system sound with Epic, period.

However, as someone who supplies equipment to others, it is obvious that many people DO want to go single-system, and that the majority of those who are going double-system are sending scratch track to camera with a relatively inexpensive system (Be it a G3, or even a Comtek) I'm not working on those shows, so they don't have to take my advice..... But I do have to deal with the complaints from customers who expect that a camera with audio inputs is able to actually record the audio that is being sent, and to be able to monitor that recording in a reliable manner.

[Mike P.]

Seriously? If the audio was good I'd be using it as much as possible. The difference between having the sound guy just record isos or having him record isos and send a line direct to the camera (reference or otherwise) is a matter of plugging in one cable. Then you'd have the opportunity to go with the isos if the in-cam can't be manipulated in post the way you need (which would be rare).

It's an unrealistic expectation to have industry-perfect audio in-camera. However, it's not crazy to expect perfectly acceptable audio without running into these kinds of hassles... I mean you drop $3-4k on an extra piece of hardware (which nears the price of a 744t) and you still don't get usable in-camera audio? That's ridiculous by any standard.

George, were you able to run any more official tests to find out if the pulsing wasn't caused by something else.

[George Hupka]

I am still waiting for my SSD readers to arrive, and my earlier tests were done with older firmware versions so that's all part of what makes Red troubleshooting so much fun...

Once I do that, I am going to start with a mixer and cable directly to the camera, no wireless at all, and see if I can get that to work reliably. baby steps!