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  1. #1231  
    Senior Member Tom Hamilton's Avatar
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    Would be nice to have the topside option available, but if it comes down to it, yes, a dedicated u/w camera definitely.
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  #1232  
    REDUSER.NET Brent Carter's Avatar
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    Of course, Michael. As does Graeme who was most definitely in the loop last time, not just "now". And forgive me if my attempt to funnel communications through one conversation instead of two was received as a "reprimand".

    I won't go into direct communications between a customer and RED, I can only simply state that for us to dig deeper into this issue, we need more data than we currently have. Hence, us asking for that data as well as this community's assistance in the matter. You are the underwater experts, not us!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Maes View Post
    Thanks Brent!
    No offense meant, but I sent you a ton of data in December. Do you still have that data?
    If not I will try to find it again.
    Warm regards,

    Michael
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  3. #1233  
    Senior Member Will Keir's Avatar
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    Rudi,

    Your input is greatly appreciated, thank you.

    Jarred, RED team, thanks for looking into this issue, it is also greatly appreciated and we are looking forward to the solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi Herbert View Post
    Being certain this is not an issue caused by the underwater medium, I would then be forced to believe that the underlying condition must manifest itself during land shoots, and were it to be solved, all RED users across the board would benefit greatly.
    Will Keir
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  4. #1234  
    Senior Member Greg F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarred Land View Post
    Ouch.. worst thing we have been called all month :)

    heh heh heh.

    This should be fun... Graeme is getting a ton of great feedback already so thank you.

    I have a question for you guys.. with your UW Epics, do you use them very often out of water during a specific shooting day? i.e if you had a custom build with color science and some internal optics that you could use but it would be tuned specifically for UW work, would that be of value?
    Glad we could be of service :)

    I shoot 90% of everything underwater but I do like doing some oddball topside stuff. Although I just got off the phone with Graeme so I think that this is going to be very educational once I do what he suggested. I should be testing this Sunday.

    Thanks for the ideas too really appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent@RED View Post
    You are the underwater experts, not us!
    LOL!!! ;-)

    I have no idea what the hell I am doing
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  5. #1235  
    Senior Member Michael Maes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg F View Post
    I have no idea what the hell I am doing
    HAHAHAHA !!!
    I love it Greg!
    Warm regards,

    Michael Maes
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  6. #1236  
    Senior Member Michael Maes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent@RED View Post
    Of course, Michael. As does Graeme who was most definitely in the loop last time, not just "now". And forgive me if my attempt to funnel communications through one conversation instead of two was received as a "reprimand".

    I won't go into direct communications between a customer and RED, I can only simply state that for us to dig deeper into this issue, we need more data than we currently have. Hence, us asking for that data as well as this community's assistance in the matter. You are the underwater experts, not us!
    I'll try to give as much input as I can.
    But I'm on the road through Europe without camera and data so it will take a while :-/
    One thing is for sure: there is no one on this forum who can pinpoint the issue and give detailed information as Rudi.
    He is a true expert and deserves all merits in this case.
    I just hit the record button... and saw things were wrong.

    When I'm home I will deliver the Shark footage.
    I and many others only want this solved for once and for ever and I want to cooperate in any way I can.
    Personally I have no problem whatsoever to have the Epic as a dedicated underwater camera.
    I have the intention to buy a second one (Dragon) for topside shooting.

    Once again: thanks to the entire RED team to dig into this! I hope this time, with the entire group input, you nail the "bug" :-))
    Cheers!
    Warm regards,

    Michael Maes
    MAESterpiece Productions
    Extreme Wildlife Cinematographer
    Fellow International at the Explorers Club (FI17)
    https://www.michaelmaes.com

    MONSTRO 'Forged' 8K VV #140 – MONSTRO 8K VV #572 – WPN-W HELIUM 8K #900 | Zeiss CP.2 – Zeiss CZ.2 – Canon CN20x50 – Nikonos R-UW | Gates DEEP "NIKONOS-RTM" WEAPON – Nauticam WPN-LT – Nauticam ROSSA "SHOGUN"
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  7. #1237  
    Senior Member Casey Green's Avatar
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    I stumbled upon this thread (and current topic) and found it quite interesting. I have not done any underwater shooting with our EPICs, but they could be rented for such projects, so I'd love to see a solution for this.

    I got to thinking, and it occurred to me that perhaps Black Shading could be central to the issue. Since it takes ~20 minutes to Black Shade the camera, I would guess that shooters are not doing this at depth and at the temperature of the shooting location. I haven't read the entire thread here :-) but is it common practice to dive and then calibrate the sensor, or is that usually not done because it is inconvenient and/or difficult?

    I've seen magenta come into footage when our camera has gone from warm to cold temperatures and Black Shading fixes that. I'm only assuming this would be greatly exaggerated at extreme temperature changes from top side to depth. Also, could pressure be an issue? Perhaps calibrating in the environment's native pressure would be helpful?

    If so, Having the ability to save Calibration profiles for varying temperatures and depths could be beneficial.

    If this has been spoken of previously, I'm sorry I missed the posts, but I just hope I can be of help in resolving.
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  8. #1238  
    Senior Member Michael Maes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Green View Post
    I got to thinking, and it occurred to me that perhaps Black Shading could be central to the issue
    Hi Casey,

    I don't think it has been done already.
    I do it quite often but.... at home.

    I was (and am) planning to dedicate a dive to perform a black shading at 60 feet.
    I will send the results to RED and to RU.
    Loved your input!
    Warm regards,

    Michael Maes
    MAESterpiece Productions
    Extreme Wildlife Cinematographer
    Fellow International at the Explorers Club (FI17)
    https://www.michaelmaes.com

    MONSTRO 'Forged' 8K VV #140 – MONSTRO 8K VV #572 – WPN-W HELIUM 8K #900 | Zeiss CP.2 – Zeiss CZ.2 – Canon CN20x50 – Nikonos R-UW | Gates DEEP "NIKONOS-RTM" WEAPON – Nauticam WPN-LT – Nauticam ROSSA "SHOGUN"
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  9. #1239  
    Senior Member Johnny Friday's Avatar
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    I think that it's a good point, but doubtful this is the problem.
    Johnny Friday
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  10. #1240  
    Senior Member Tom Hamilton's Avatar
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    I've seen magenta come into footage when our camera has gone from warm to cold temperatures and Black Shading fixes that. I'm only assuming this would be greatly exaggerated at extreme temperature changes from top side to depth. Also, could pressure be an issue? Perhaps calibrating in the environment's native pressure would be helpful?
    Hi Casey,

    These cameras are installed in sealed aluminum (mostly) housings, there is no pressure change involved as they descend. The pressure gradients are absorbed by the housing body itself, most housings have a crush depth beyond which they cannot go, as stated in the manufacturer's literature.

    Since the housings are sealed, the heat generated by the camera is likely to increase the temperature inside the housing, this being offset in varying degrees through heat transference via the aluminum housing body to the colder water outside.

    I black shade in the morning before the first dive, and via a large capacity battery and media card, try to keep the housing sealed for the duration of the shoot. Salty air, spray, and pitching boats in heavy seas have been known to ding an expensive camera or two :-)
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