Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

Closed Thread
Page 101 of 118 FirstFirst ... 5191979899100101102103104105111 ... LastLast
Results 1,001 to 1,010 of 1176
  1. #1001  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    885
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    They've got a ways to go. It's certainly affordable for owner/operators. But a kit will probably run you $20k-$30k. That's still a large investment to exclusively use yourself. With an Epic kit running you easily $100k with RED Primes... you can get a lot of rental days out of someone else's gear for $100k.
    Exactly. Which is why a reduction in just the brain price (to my mind) would be a sisyphean move from the point of view of those who are invested in the entire RED ecosystem.
     

  2. #1002  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    3,448
    This thread.... pretty much summed up right here with Redusers shooting and the thing on the Train being the "Price cut" ...even the dialogue works!

    Kind regards,

    Tim Whitcomb
    Filmmaker
     

  3. #1003  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    885
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Whitcomb View Post
    This thread.... pretty much summed up right here with Redusers shooting and the thing on the Train being the "Price cut" ...even the dialogue works!

    LOL. I see it more as a "What would happen if you won the lottery?" kind of a thing. RED has. They have recoupled. Costs have dropped. They have won the lottery. Now, will they give all the money to Mom because she deserves it, or will they spend it on making new friends? ;)

    Some of the comments in this are hilarious. http://http://learning.blogs.nytimes...n-the-lottery/
     

  4. #1004  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Marin County, CA
    Posts
    6,871
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan Spasic View Post
    It makes sense that you have hard time understanding how others feel because you are not in the same situation, probably not even in the same business. You own a Scarlet, yes? I also presume you have a day job or another source of income? Well then....To answer your question, we've been sold cameras under a motto "obsolescence obsolete" which was generously demonstrated through the R1 trade-in program. But what I have now is the quickest devaluating piece of tech I've ever owned. This does not only apply to Epic body but almost every piece of Red gear. Stuff we've payed premium prices and waited for months on to arrive, only a couple of years ago, is literally worthless. You can't give it away for the 10th of its price. So why is Red superseding every other manufacturer in this respect? The price drop doesn't help anybody but the potential new buyers. Even for them I would advise to proceede with caution.
    You know the old saying about ASS/U/ME.

    As for talking about how others "feel" - I didn't think that was the issue in this discussion. Of course people "feel" disappointed or angry or upset or cheated or fearful. But the real issue is the rational thought behind running a business and acting and thinking rationally. I am not contesting anyone's "feelings." My comments have been pointed at those who can't seem to get used to the idea that an "investment" in technology with an expectation of stable prices and/or value, is a fool's bet from the beginning. Would it make you "feel" better if I "felt" sorry for all of us who paid full price for our equipment? (Doesn't change the rationale of the actions people have taken.)

    I don't think you mean "literally" worthless. If that's the case, send it along to me - I'll pay shipping. LOL
    Last edited by Terry VerHaar; 10-31-2012 at 06:37 PM.
     

  5. #1005  
    Member Peer Landa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Norwegian lost in CA
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan Spasic View Post
    Stuff we've payed premium prices and waited for months on to arrive, only a couple of years ago, is literally worthless.
    So from tomorrow on your Epic camera is "literally worthless"...?! Oh brother, what a bizarro world you are living in.

    -- peer
     

  6. #1006  
    Quote Originally Posted by Milan Spasic View Post
    is literally worthless.
    lmao.. You expect anyone to take this seriously? Really? If u mean this I urge you to give yourself a little more credit then that. I'm sure you can find a way to make one of the best cameras on the market worth something.
     

  7. #1007  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Could be anywhere in the world today.
    Posts
    4,142
    I don't care if they come down 1,000 bucks or 10,000 bucks... I'm just happy that they do what I want them to do... and exist for me to profit from.

    Sony's cameras don't do what I need... (yet) ... even with there new breed.
    Arris cameras don't do what I need... (yet) .... and the way they are talking they may never tick all my boxes.
    Canon don't do what I need... (yet) ... But I think they are RED's biggest competitor. The moment they can do high speed RAW and Canon pricing... Then that will swing my thinking.

    And to upgrade any of the above means I have to buy another camera....
    To upgrade RED will cost me 6K... ?

    In saying all that... One day one of these companies will bring out a EPIC killer... and RED may be behind the 8 ball. Its happend to before, it will happen again.

    Canon did it to nikon and vise versa.... And RED acknowledge that there is stiff competition coming in fast and they could loose customers if they fall behind.
    But till that happens RED is for me for now....

    Did I mention I have gone from Nikon to Canon back to nikon and then to canon again...
    Ive also gone from Sony to Canon to Arri to RED...

    This cycle of chasing a technical edge and price advantage is real for us all...
    Mark Toia
    Director / DP / Founder of Zoom Film & Television


    www.toia.com

    www.zoomfilmtv.com.au
     

  8. #1008  
    Senior Member Shervin Mandgaryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dubai / Toronto
    Posts
    534
    I love the sudden attitude drop when prices are lowered. The same guys saying their stuff is worthless now only a few weeks ago were touting around as the best of the best.

    Sure, if the Epic is a 'worthless' asset to you now, you can always jump ship and pay 3-4x more for inferior tech with the bigger names. The people who actually appreciate the product and the price drop based on an HONEST assessment of how their manufacturing prices have decreased will benefit the most. No other company on EARTH will ever drop the prices like RED will. Too much greed in this world... for RED to stay clear of that says alot.

    I'll always be a RED owner because of this mentality and find it almost hostile that anyone who paid to partake in RED's domination of 4k in the last few years has suddenly looked at their own purchases as a worthless investment.
    ----------------------
    Shervin Mandgaryan

    Cinematographer
    www.shervincine.com
     

  9. #1009  
    Senior Member Nick Gardner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    3,112
    I don't think he is talking about the epic. Case in point, I gave away red drives because absolutely no one would pay any money for them. I have been unable to sell my 5" red one monitor. I have red one top mounts from ET that are only worth anything to me because I have a machine shop and can mill off the useless bits and use them for something else (I have yet to discover a use for them). I get the feeling that a lot of the people who are so reluctant to admit that this has any actual impact haven't been in the business very long.

    I think it will hurt the perception of Red to cut the price. It's already the "cheap" camera, it's already the "hobbyist/indie" camera. That is how it is perceived by a lot of producers and crews. I personally disagree. I think it's the most powerful tool ever put into the hands of filmmakers. Unfortunately, when you get 700 dingbats running around with completely half assed scarlet, or even epic packages, that is the perception that is promoted. I really genuinely challenge you to go find a complete mickey mouse Alexa production where they are running around with enough batteries to shoot for 2 hours, a manfroto head, and a 1200 dollar still lens that they think they can shoot their whole project on.

    I do not plan on lowering my rental rates. My clients will not expect me too. I wasn't planning on selling my cameras anyway. This in no way negatively affects me. I do think it will harm the perception of Red as a brand if they come out slashing prices. But, then again, I don't expect to be seeing $20k epics ;-) I guess we will find out tomorrow.

    Nick
     

  10. #1010  
    Senior Member Timur Civan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,623
    Well....

    As a guy who is mid way through a used epic lease to own, this can potentially hurt me pretty badly. If the price drops to where a new camera is worth less than what I owe, I will be in trouble. The only reason I'm able to make payments is that rental rates are high.

    Then again, there are epic owners right now giving up their cameras for peanuts. I'm getting great rates. I suppose it has to do with my rolodex of clients, rather than the price of the camera. It's disconcerting but not catastrophic. Ultimately people are paying me to shoot, not provide a camera at a low price. In fact, they seem to pay what ever price I set. Thankfully. I followed Jim's advice. I worked my camera hard.
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts