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  1. #1021  
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    These are certainly interesting times.

    I'm curious to see the next year play out.

    Nick Morrison makes some good points in RED's favor, but Sony's put some good cards on the table here. Global shutter, high frame rates without sensor cropping, easy 1080 and 2k files... these are features that will not be ignored by producers, rental houses, and those considering their next camera purchase - particularly those not already invested in RED equipment.

    Certainly, projects that are currently being shot for television on the Alexa may give the Sony F55 a very serious look.
     

  2. #1022  
    +1 @James Houk.

    True, it does offer some interesting options to some markets.
     

  3. #1023  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Morrison View Post
    Truth is, this is WAR. Sony is dropping ICBM's, and now RED is retaliating. As THEY SHOULD. This is is a TAKE NO PRISONERS battle for supremacy in a market that RED CREATED.

    No one took 4K seriously until RED made it a de-facto standard. And now...a sleeping, wounded giant (have you SEEN Sony's stock price?), has decided they WANT IN.

    Well, unfortunately, they are taking on a SMALLER, MORE NIMBLE company (RED) that is run by a mad genius that clearly couldn't give a sh*t about making profits. Which gives him the strength to be a DAVID in a world of GOLIATHS.

    What's happening right now goes WAY BEYOND $$$.

    For Sony, it's a chance to prove they are still relevant.

    For RED, it's a chance to slay another Goliath that wants them dead. And an opportunity to remind the industry that you can't beat them with a sticker price. They only way to win this war is to CREATE THE BEST CAMERA.

    And, well, we ALL KNOW what that camera's called. It breathes fire, spits lead, and roars like a DRAGON.


    Haha. What Sony doesn't realize is that this WAR they've begun is already OVER.
    If this is what RED wants to do, they need to kill the SCARLET, and make the EPIC a sub-10K SHOOTING solution (i.e. brain + canon mount + side SSD + one media card). I'm all for this. If RED's business goals and ledger allows for this, GO FOR IT, RED!

    But keep the full solution pricing in mind, not just the brain. That's my only take on this.
     

  4. #1024  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    If they "kill the Scarlet," does that mean mine immediately stops working and becomes worthless like some around here posit?
     

  5. #1025  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    If they "kill the Scarlet," does that mean mine immediately stops working and becomes worthless like some around here posit?
    Depends; if at NAB2013 every company is offering 8k cameras for $5000, I highly doubt anyone will rent/use a Scarlet when better and cheaper is available. So while you may have no problems using it for your own stuff, everyone else will have moved on to better. Realistically though, it should be relevant until at least 2014.
     

  6. #1026  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    If they "kill the Scarlet," does that mean mine immediately stops working and becomes worthless like some around here posit?
    To build a rental business around? Yes, most likely. But RED never had the model of renting at their core a la Panavision. RED was always an empowerment movement and the price point enabled ownership. That's why I bought in. That's why I'll stay bought in.

    RED now needs to make the post struggle a non-issue for those of us who can't splurge on a red rocket or want to have the latest technology incorporated into the red rocket solution. For me, as a stage 4 EPIC-X owner, that's my wish for what I want RED to focus on and enable/empower us.

    I want Nov 1 to come and go, and for RED to focus on helping those of us who want to never have to defend the EPIC against the ALEXA. We want RED to do the talking for us.

    edit: all of this is MY OPINION, not fact. should be understood, but want to make sure I state it clearly.
    Last edited by Nikhil Kamkolkar; 10-31-2012 at 04:13 PM.
     

  7. #1027  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil Kamkolkar View Post
    To build a rental business around? Yes, most likely. But RED never had the model of renting at their core a la Panavision.
    They've got a ways to go. It's certainly affordable for owner/operators. But a kit will probably run you $20k-$30k. That's still a large investment to exclusively use yourself. With an Epic kit running you easily $100k with RED Primes... you can get a lot of rental days out of someone else's gear for $100k.
     

  8. #1028  
    Senior Member Milan Spasic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    I gotta say... never have I seen anyone so committed to a position of Armageddon than some folks in this thread. What I can't understand is, if a price drop (of a high tech piece of gear, no less) spells so much gloom and doom for certain business activities, why would anyone ever have taken such a risk in the first place. Shit ALWAYS happens.
    It makes sense that you have hard time understanding how others feel because you are not in the same situation, probably not even in the same business. You own a Scarlet, yes? I also presume you have a day job or another source of income? Well then....

    To answer your question, we've been sold cameras under a motto "obsolescence obsolete" which was generously demonstrated through the R1 trade-in program. But what I have now is the quickest devaluating piece of tech I've ever owned. This does not only apply to Epic body but almost every piece of Red gear. Stuff we've payed premium prices and waited for months on to arrive, only a couple of years ago, is literally worthless. You can't give it away for the 10th of its price.

    So why is Red superseding every other manufacturer in this respect? The price drop doesn't help anybody but the potential new buyers. Even for them I would advise to proceede with caution.
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  9. #1029  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    They've got a ways to go. It's certainly affordable for owner/operators. But a kit will probably run you $20k-$30k. That's still a large investment to exclusively use yourself. With an Epic kit running you easily $100k with RED Primes... you can get a lot of rental days out of someone else's gear for $100k.
    Exactly. Which is why a reduction in just the brain price (to my mind) would be a sisyphean move from the point of view of those who are invested in the entire RED ecosystem.
     

  10. #1030  
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    This thread.... pretty much summed up right here with Redusers shooting and the thing on the Train being the "Price cut" ...even the dialogue works!

    Kind regards,

    Tim Whitcomb
    Filmmaker
     

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