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  1. #521  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Jones View Post
    The timing of the reduction must be more than in part due to the imminent Sony announcement. Whether RED reduce their price or not, rental rates will have to be reduced if a cheaper Sony camera hits the market that comes close to the Epic in quality. You can't seriously expect Red not to respond to competitors in order to protect your investment when your camera's value will be hurt by external companies whether RED do anything or not.

    You should just be glad for the opportunity to upgrade to Dragon so your camera can continue to bring in rentals. Imagine if you were any other companies customer at the time of a new announcement? No freebies against accessories for purchases that took place in the last month, no upgrade path, and instant huge devaluation.

    You are probably going to be out of pocket but it could be so much worse.

    When push comes to shove, you and your clients have a camera that was used on Prometheus and Hobbit - and it is only going to get better.
    In many ways a Red One MX exceeds an Alexa now. Yet an Alexa costs way more, is rented frequently for way more. Perception is reality. I would have loved to see Epic stand its ground as the premium deluxe high-end camera. That is really what it is. Selling it too cheap will not help this (technically accurate) perception.
     

  2. #522  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Ruffo View Post
    Well no. Many can afford to get $0 ROI on MacBook. It's low enough to have a wide personal-use only market. You can contineu to use it long after it is out fo date - no client si going to care how recent your laptop is, unless it si too slow for DIT tasks or something. Not a 30K + camera. Few people would buy this just for personal fun. I know I could not.
    Tell that to the company that buys hundreds of computers each year. No - you can't really afford a zero ROI on your tech investments. Like I said, it's all just zeros from there.
     

  3. #523  
    Senior Member Andrae Palmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Ruffo View Post
    In many ways a Red One MX exceeds an Alexa now. Yet an Alexa costs way more, is rented frequently for way more. Perception is reality. I would have loved to see Epic stand its ground as the premium deluxe high-end camera. That is really what it is. Selling it too cheap will not help this (technically accurate) perception.
    I think you are right (regarding Alexa priced higher in the rental market).... but knowing the nature of RED you have to plan accordingly.... RED is not trying to be that type of price gouging company. If you want an elite brand... get an Alexa Studio. For the same reasons you mentioned I'm planning to get a Alexa 4K when it comes out... while also having a few EPICs. Each camera has its merits.
    Andrae Palmer
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    Package for rent in South Florida with RED EPIC Dragon 6K, RED One, Sony a7S II, Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon L lenses, Zeiss CP.2 T1.5 Super Speeds, EZ Rig + DJI Ronin & EZ Jib + Remote Head. Grip package with LED LitePanels 1X1, Kino Flo 4x4, ARRI Fresnels & Source Four Leko. Rentals/Equipment List: http://facetmedia.com/camera-packages/
     

  4. #524  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanuel A. View Post
    For your information, David Mullen was one of the few if not the only one who publicly defended my honour in such boards. So, please don't hide the dirty game of the usual suspects with REAL moviemakers and decent people. For some reason, he is a reference for all of us. And we don't see him to feed personal agendas.

    The point is that I've dedicated all my life to movies. Did you already sleep in a car because of them? I did. And all my partners, I guess, too. How many on cinematography.com forums can say the same? Unless to attack who they simply don't know... even insinuating lack of background. What it is untrue. Only for the record, I attended one of the most elitist filmschools of old Europe where I could finish two graduations in filmmaking (yes, on celluloid-based), nevertheless, I was attacked there as an indigent, along Jim, even Jarred in his own first post ever IIRC. I don't remember to have seen your name there. But speaking of another name already mentioned tonight here, Tom Lowe was the only name seen in this thread, beyond mine (and of course, Jim/Jarred), to fight for RED acceptance there.
    No I never slept in a car. I got pro gigs when I was still in high school, and paid my way through University mostly with gigs - no family contacts, just b__lls and what my grandmother calls Moxy. Yes I have worked hard, had music video clients put guns in my face, etc. etc. usual show business stories.

    So what? What if I hadn't? Does that make me less noble? Are only poor people noble and "good"? How much does one have to suffer before being acceptable to you? I know filmmakers who have suffered a lot - and who suck, others who are great, same for those who have not suffered much at all. Who cares?

    I don't post on Cinematographer.com (I probably should, if only to defend Red) but I do frequently read it.

    I agree that the opinion there of Red is unfairly negative and FUD-filled, but there are many other defenders, not just those you mention. But some of these guys are titans I otherwise have tremendous respect for. Instead of demonizing them, I think we should examine how they came about these false beliefs, and try to change them.

    Dirty game? Usual suspects? I have no idea what you are talking about. I really don't. There's no game here, just brutal honesty from me.
     

  5. #525  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
    Tell that to the company that buys hundreds of computers each year. No - you can't really afford a zero ROI on your tech investments. Like I said, it's all just zeros from there.
    they are tools though, if they are computers in an office ro something. They are not renting them out as a line-item. It's just not the same business model as pro cine gear. When I go to my lawyer he doesn't tell me how fast his servers are - nor do I care.
     

  6. #526  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    I think comprehensive package deals that offer significant savings (buying it as package as opposed to individual items) would be a good strategy because I see quite often on here people are not prepared for some of the necessary accessories. Look at the countless threads about media prices. For those very familiar with digital cinema cameras, there is the understanding that you will need a lot of stuff to go along with it such as extra batteries, beefy tripods, lenses, etc. But someone jumping up from an HVX200 may or may not be prepared for the extra costs. You really do need experience to know what is needed and what isn't needed for the kind of shooting you intend to do. For example, showing up on a job with 2 batteries and a 64GB SSD might not get the job done.
    Steve Sherrick
     

  7. #527  
    Senior Member Terry VerHaar's Avatar
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    Rob - you are obviously not going to be persuaded here. I get that. But you made certain assumptions when you "invested" in your Epic that turned out to be somewhat off base. We all do that - we make "mistakes." But that isn't RED's fault. They are doing what is right for their business and, IMO, for the greatest number of clients and potential clients in the marketplace. Just like one sometimes gets "lucky" when your assumptions about the future pan out better than expected, it can also go the other way. Whatever bets you make, you have to be ready to accept the consequences. It isn't that I (or probably most others here) don't have sympathy for your plight, a lot of us just don't feel like blaming RED is a reasonable response.
     

  8. #528  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Parkes View Post
    For all the Cry Babies out there ... If the price reduction is that big a deal for you then you either couldn't really afford one in the first place or you are not working enough to justify owning one. Every other company on the planet reduce prices without warning.
    Really - so people who got theirs 3 months ago, they should have amortized it by now. Or how about people who bought it for a project, which now got delayed or cancelled. Or people who rent it out enough to pay it off safely in a year and a half or so? Not manly man enough for you? They don't deserve their Epics like you. We should all be so perfectly always booked as you, you imminently powerful manly man. Everyone else should just shut up and takle it like the manly man that you are (who BTW, I see from you signature, doesn't own an Epic).

    BTW - not true that all companies price drop without warning in big ways (again, maybe drop will be small and reasonable - we'll see) Some do, some don't.
     

  9. #529  
    Senior Member Adam Beck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    I think comprehensive package deals that offer significant savings (buying it as package as opposed to individual items) would be a good strategy because I see quite often on here people are not prepared for some of the necessary accessories. Look at the countless threads about media prices. For those very familiar with digital cinema cameras, there is the understanding that you will need a lot of stuff to go along with it such as extra batteries, beefy tripods, lenses, etc. But someone jumping up from an HVX200 may or may not be prepared for the extra costs. You really do need experience to know what is needed and what isn't needed for the kind of shooting you intend to do. For example, showing up on a job with 2 batteries and a 64GB SSD might not get the job done.
    Steve is right on. I would of been in the same position if I hadn't taken Reducation.
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  10. #530  
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    I have to admit I find some of this discussion a little weird.

    When I/we decide to purchase something it is because we need it exactly at that point. Typically I try to hold off as long as I possibly can to purchase something.. but there comes a tipping point where YOU HAVE TO PULL THE TRIGGER… There is absolutely no choice.

    I take responsibility for that.

    However, the fact that these cameras systems can become cheaper and more advanced is indeed better for MY business…

    I don’t lose any sleep over that and take responsibility for my actions.

    Obviously stuff (usually) gets cheaper unless it’s a special “introductory” price.. that’s expected… I can’t DO anything about that other than actually do the things we need to do?). ???


    Honestly what can you do?

    Cheers,

    Eric
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