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  #1 Sony F5 and F55... 
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    I am going to give a tip of the hat to Sony tonight. These two camera announcements are significant.

    While I do not see them as a threat to EPIC or Scarlet... I do see them as a threat to the conventional and outdated thinking of the industry that tried so hard to cling to "1080P and 2K are good enough".

    We began to champion 4K as the respectful replacement for film in the digital motion world back in 2006. We were embraced. We were ignored. We were revolutionary and we were a scam.

    Others in the industry incredibly (and successfully in some circles) attempted to convince the industry that 1080P and 2K was good enough. On one page of Arri's website they extolled the virtues and increased detail of a 4K film scan and then on another sold the Alexa as a feature worthy camera that "had more resolution than other so called 4K cameras". (rolls eyes)

    Every single camera manufacturer now has a 4K and/or 5K sensor program in the works. Why? Because 1080P and 2K acquisition was the biggest scam in the history of the film industry.

    Sony has come to the party. God love them. The F65 is a true 4K camera (although not 8K as it is advertised). The F5 and F55 are 4K cameras soon to be released.

    There are 4K display panels being released. 4K projectors. The world is finally coming to its senses. We predicted this 6 years ago. Now it is here.

    What does this mean?

    There is a new standard from Japan (not exactly sure why they get to call the shots) for consumer 4K . It dictates that you can't up-rez to 4K.

    It means that features and TV shows shot on 1080P or 2K are destined to be left out of a second bite of the apple for a 4K delivery opportunity.

    It means that we were right after all. Not that we want to gloat. We are just sad we didn't do a better job of clearly explaining our position to more people over the past 6 years.

    In the end... Sony has validated what we have believed in all along. 1080P is not a respectful film replacement and 4K (or more) is. Actually we believe in 5K+ bayer to a 4K finish. But I don't want to nit-pick Sony's announcements.

    The image needs to get better over time. There was a moment in history when it got worse. It was called 1080P and 2K acquisition. Mercifully that time has passed. Thanks to Sony for acknowledging this truth.

    Did I mention that 4K is 5 times the resolution of 1080P?

    Jim
    Last edited by Jannard; 10-31-2012 at 11:42 PM.
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member Patrick Wieland's Avatar
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    Even on the web, Vimeo and Youtube players are getting larger and larger. 720/1080 used to look decent. Now blown it up it looks like crap. Web delivery is going to get better and better. The demands of clients now are like hmm why do our videos look so crappy? I thought you shot it in 1080 HD!
    DP/Editor
    Scarlet-X

    www.patrickwieland.net
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member Adam Johnson's Avatar
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    AMEN!
    Alkali Digital LLC
    Digital Cinematographer/ Editor


    My Website
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Wil Wong's Avatar
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    I think the broadcast industry took a long time to adapt back from SD to HD era. Film and hollywood wasn't even a factor back then.

    If memory serves me, HD was invented years before it finally became the standard...mostly held back due to broadcasting and the pipeline for cable and satellite adjusting. Broadcasters were hesitant to change and refresh studios (wiring, fibre feeds, archival methods) as the cost was huge. I'm curious if they would be just as hesitant or slow, as 4k kicks into high gear. Took a long time and many government and organizations working together on standards and practises.

    Consumer TV and camera manufacturers would love selling new models and features (allowing folks to buy something new for christmas/holidays to replace the old).

    Still, as 4k takes hold in Computer monitor resolution, tv sets, cameras and finally a compressed 4k streaming version on the web, I wonder if broadcasters will be ready to re-invest after finally recently transitioning to HD.

    Will they take another 10-15 years to be able to broadcast 4k quality (tech or financially)? Is it all streaming or will a new SSD type medium replace dvds and offer 4k products?

    Very curious times indeed.
    Movme Inc.

    Red Epic-X, DJI Ronin, Macbook Pro Retina, FCPX
     

  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    I am going to give a tip of the hat to Sony tonight. These two camera announcements are significant.

    While I do not see them as a threat to EPIC or Scarlet... I do see them as a threat to the conventional and outdated thinking of the industry that tried so hard to cling to "1080P and 2K are good enough".

    We began to champion 4K as the respectful replacement for film in the digital motion world back in 2006. We were embraced. We were ignored. We were revolutionary and we were a scam.

    Others in the industry incredibly attempted (and successfully in some circles) tried to convince the industry that 1080P and 2K was good enough. On one page of Arri's website they extolled the virtues of a 4K film scan and then on another sold the Alexa as a feature worthy camera that "had more resolution than other so called 4K cameras". (rolls eyes)

    Every single camera manufacturer now has a 4K and/or 5K sensor program in the works now. Why? Because 1080P and 2K acquisition was the biggest scam in the history of the film industry.

    Sony has come to the party. God love them. The F65 is a true 4K camera (although not 8K as it is advertised). The F5 and F55 are 4K cameras soon to be released.

    There are 4K display panels being released. 4K projectors. The world is finally coming to its senses. We predicted this 6 years ago. Now it is here.

    What does this mean?

    There is a new standard from Japan (not exactly sure why they get to call the shots) for consumer 4K . It dictates that you can't up-rez to 4K.

    It means that features and TV shows shot on 1080P or 2K are destined to be left out of a second bite of the apple for a 4K delivery opportunity.

    It means that we were right after all. Not that we want to gloat. We are just sad we didn't do a better job of clearly explaining our position to more people over the past 6 years.

    In the end... Sony has validated what we have believed in all along. 1080P is not a respectful film replacement and 4K (or more) is. Actually we believe in 5K+ bayer to a 4K finish. But I don't want to nit-pick Sony's announcements.

    The image needs to get better over time. There was a moment in history when it got worse. It was called 1080P and 2K. Mercifully that time has passed. Thanks to Sony for acknowledging this truth.

    Jim
    Jim...

    Your vision, and willingness to commit your finances, has changed EVERYTHING. For what little it may be worth, I'm on the voyage with you, sir.

    E
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Wil Wong's Avatar
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    Or is this the beginning of the merge between tv and web? Is this what Sony sees (finally changing the model they long championed to convergence).
    Movme Inc.

    Red Epic-X, DJI Ronin, Macbook Pro Retina, FCPX
     

  7. #7 4K Media 
    I feel like Jackie Brown, "I can't afford to start all over again." I will though cause 4K is so much better than 1080P. Just got to get a 4K projector now :P
     

  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wil Wong View Post
    I think the broadcast industry took a long time to adapt back from SD to HD era. Film and hollywood wasn't even a factor back then.

    If memory serves me, HD was invented years before it finally became the standard...mostly held back due to broadcasting and the pipeline for cable and satellite adjusting. Broadcasters were hesitant to change and refresh studios (wiring, fibre feeds, archival methods) as the cost was huge. I'm curious if they would be just as hesitant or slow, as 4k kicks into high gear. Took a long time and many government and organizations working together on standards and practises.

    Consumer TV and camera manufacturers would love selling new models and features (allowing folks to buy something new for christmas/holidays to replace the old).

    Still, as 4k takes hold in Computer monitor resolution, tv sets, cameras and finally a compressed 4k streaming version on the web, I wonder if broadcasters will be ready to re-invest after finally recently transitioning to HD.

    Will they take another 10-15 years to be able to broadcast 4k quality (tech or financially)? Is it all streaming or will a new SSD type medium replace dvds and offer 4k products?

    Very curious times indeed.

    I am convinced REDRAY is the answer. Four wall distribution is going to take on an entirely new meaning in the future of content delivery. In many ways, the entire philosophy of RED revolves around one thing: democratization.

    There has been too much power in far too few hands -- for far too long.
     

  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wil Wong View Post
    Or is this the beginning of the merge between tv and web? Is this what Sony sees (finally changing the model they long championed to convergence).
    PRECISELY.
     

  10. #10  
    well when a $400 go pro is shooting 2.7k....
    its time to give up on 1080p...
    RED #1198, EPIC-X #480
     

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