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  1. #31  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Soderberg View Post
    Sounds like this might be something to talk to Graeme about though.
    Here's a few "highlight" quotes from one of the many threads on the subject. Remember this content is in reference to the Mysterium X sensor. Dragon will have a different "sweet spot" and also more dynamic range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    800 is the answer.
    "Native" doesn't really have a meaning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Yuan-Vogel View Post
    ISO doesn't mean much in a system where the imager has a fixed, linear light response since there are many ways to build a gamma-corrected image from that data.

    RED usually suggests their ISO800 setting's curve to be the best balance between highlight latitude and noise, which is usually what one wants out of a corrected image. Many people are happy with that default setting. As I understand there are also many ways to build your own look.
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    Noah's answer is good. Stephen, the sensor doesn't have a "native iso". If you go look up the definition of "ISO" there is no definition for a sensor as-is, and in terms of RAW recording the answer is "go ask the manufacturer what they recommend". We recommend starting at 800 and taking it from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    Just to be clear - Dynamic Range is constant. It doesn't matter what ISO you shoot, the total DR available is the same. This would not be the case in an analogue gain situation where typically a stop of DR is lost for every stop up in ISO you go.

    What does change is highlight (and because DR is constant, consequently shadow) latitude. For each stop in ISO you go up, you gain a stop of highlight latitude and loose a stop in the shadows. Another way of thinking of "loosing" the stop in the shadows is that the shadows will get more noise in them.

    Similarly if you go down a stop in ISO, you loose highlight latitude and gain it in the shadows. This is fine until the point where you loose too much in the highlights and start to get clipping. That is why we only recommend you go below ISO 320 if you're very careful and watch those highlights!
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    RED Weapon 8K VV Dragon "Orochi"
    RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro "Skully"

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  2. #32  
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    Thanks for taking the time to create these Phil, it's great info for us "less technical guys' the charts are a tremendously valuable tool when selling our system to clients.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Soderberg View Post
    Interesting Phil... Never saw Jim's post about the Native ISO. That's confusing, and I would argue that there has to be a native camera ISO/'Amount of Light that the Sensor sees' based on the fact that if you change in camera ISO to 320 (anything lower than 800), and expose for that, you will find your highlights have clipped and have been flattened because the camera is actually seeing brighter than the 320 ISO so the highlights clipped... (I've made this mistake and paid for it many years ago on one of my first Red shoots).
    Not the most sophisticated way of explaining it, but that's kind of how I understand it.
    Sounds like this might be something to talk to Graeme about though.
    The camera system sees the same amount of light no matter what you set your camera's ISO setting it. The white clip point is constant and the noise floor is constant, but adjusting your ISO really just defines a midpoint between those. If you overexpose your highlights, it's not because of your camera's ISO setting, it's because you lit or exposed in such I way that you had scene elements that fell above white clip.

    I kind of like what Sony did in their F65 by showing in the menu how much overexposure range you have depending on your ISO. The problem is there are a lot of different definitions of what ISO is in different cameras and that causes some confusion, especially for people moving to RED or other fixed-gain camera system from the many other systems that define ISO adjustments as a change in hardware gain that changes your noise floor and white clip. In the end, camera ISO just tells you about where your midpoint is (specifically where middle grey should fall), but that is often set somewhat arbitrarily relative to the values we really care about which are white clip and noise floor. You can change middle grey in post, but you can't change white clip or noise floor...
    Noah Yuan-Vogel | noahyv.com
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  4. #34  
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    Thanks for compiling this
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  5. #35  
    Thanks Phil!
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  6. #36  
    Senior Member Raphael Varandas's Avatar
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    Hey Phil can I share this with my clients and co-workers?
    i will be happy to put direct link to your posts. Thanks a million and great work.
    Cheers from Brazil
    Raphael Varandas
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  7. #37  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Thanks everybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael Varandas View Post
    Hey Phil can I share this with my clients and co-workers?
    i will be happy to put direct link to your posts. Thanks a million and great work.
    Cheers from Brazil
    That's the idea Raphael. Feel free to share the info.

    Greetings from Southern California!




    changeLog 02.04.2013
    - added Red Dragon Anticipated Coverage Graphic


    Based on what we know right now these are the image circles for the 6K formats.
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    phfx.com IMDB
    PHFX | tools

    RED Weapon 8K VV Dragon "Orochi"
    RED Weapon 8K VV Monstro "Skully"

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  8. #38  
    Senior Member Leland Haushalter's Avatar
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    Awesome stuff Phil!


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  9. #39  
    Senior Member Zeb B's Avatar
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    There should be a "Tip Jar" on RU for Sir Phil Holland. What a treat he is!!
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  10. #40  
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    Great job Phil, thanks for this. Academy anamorphic at last!! Bring. It. On :)
    Best

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