HP LTO-3 Ultrium Internal Drive 1600$

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

hi what about this . what do you think guys ??

[SIZE="2"]HP StorageWorks LTO Ultrium 3 Tape Drive - LTO-3 - 400GB (Native)/800GB (Compressed) - 5.25" 1/2H Internal

The HP StorageWorks Ultrium 960 tape drive is the latest generation of HP's Ultrium tape drive family, setting new benchmarks for Ultrium capacity, performance, compatibility, and data security. The Ultrium 960 delivers a capacity of 800 GB of compressed data on a single cartridge.

Features

Color Carbonite
Data Transfer Rate 60MBps (Native)/120MBps (Compressed) - 216MBps (Native Backup)/432MBps (Compressed Backup)
Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
Form Factor 5.25" 1/2H Internal
Interfaces/Ports 1 x 68-pin HD-68 LVD Ultra320 SCSI - SCSI
Manufacturer Part Number AG710A
Standard Warranty 3 Year(s) Limited
Dimensions 1.6" Height x 5.7" Width x 8.1" Depth - Approximate
Manufacturer Website Address www.hp.com
Storage Capacity 400GB (Native)/800GB (Compressed)
Product Name StorageWorks LTO Ultrium 3 Tape Drive
Weight 3.3 lb - Approximate
Packaged Quantity 1
Product Type LTO Ultrium - LTO-3
Tech Specs

Data Transfer Rate 60MBps (Native)/120MBps (Compressed) - 216MBps (Native Backup)/432MBps (Compressed Backup)
Storage Capacity 400GB (Native)/800GB (Compressed)
Manufacturer Hewlett-Packard
Recording Method Linear Serpentine
Manufacturer Part Number AG710A
Standard Warranty 3 Year(s) Limited
Color Carbonite
Interfaces/Ports 1 x 68-pin HD-68 LVD Ultra320 SCSI - SCSI
Recording Formats LTO Ultrium 2 (Read/Write)
Recording Formats LTO Ultrium 3 (Read/Write)
Form Factor 5.25" 1/2H Internal
Buffer 64MB
Manufacturer Website Address www.hp.com
Product Line StorageWorks
Product Model AG710A
Dimensions 1.6" Height x 5.7" Width x 8.1" Depth - Approximate
Product Name StorageWorks LTO Ultrium 3 Tape Drive
Weight 3.3 lb - Approximate
Packaged Quantity 1
Product Type LTO Ultrium - LTO-3 [/SIZE]


any observations .infos, will you share

please cause this is around only 1600$

[michael zaletel]

I am curious about the actual real-life backup speed of this solution. So often, manufacturers use smoke and mirrors to hide true backup times especially if the system requires a verification step. How long would it take to backup two 320GB Red Drives to this thing in the real-world. What is the cost of the 800GB version and how much are the 800GB tapes each.

[Matthew Rogers]

I am curious about the actual real-life backup speed of this solution. So often, manufacturers use smoke and mirrors to hide true backup times especially if the system requires a verification step. How long would it take to backup two 320GB Red Drives to this thing in the real-world. What is the cost of the 800GB version and how much are the 800GB tapes each.

From what I've seen in benchmarks, the drives can do somewhere between 60-80 MB's a second. For backing up 2 RED Drive, you are looking at around 2 hours. The one drive does both 400 GB's and 800 GB's. the difference is that the 800 GB's is compressed where as the 400 isn't. Same tape and everything--just compressed.

Matthew

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Don't pay attention to the compressed numbers. Makes no sense unless you're just archiving word documents, spreadsheets, databases, etc..

LTO-3 is 400GB uncompressed on a tape.

LTO-4 is 800GB uncompressed on a tape.

Right now, LTO-3 drives are hovering in the $1500 to $2000 range. LTO-4 are about double that and the cost of the media is a bit more than twice as much as LTO-3 media. IMO, LTO-3 makes a more sensible solution right now. Drive is cheaper, media is still a bit cheaper per GB. LTO-4 systems are backward compatible with LTO-3, so when your drive breaks, then you could upgrade to an LTO-4 unit as they come down in cost and still access your entire LTO-3 archive.

In bulk LTO-3 media is about $30/tape. LTO-4 media in bulk is about $80/tape.

LTO-4 also has a faster transfer rate and therefore bigger system requirements, you need a drive subsystem or other interface that can feed an LTO-4 system 120MB/s or better. So you need at least a decent 2-drive RAID 0 or 3+ drive RAID-5.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Jeff - thanks for the straightforward and useful info on LTO options. I loves me a good tech forum :nerd: .

BTW, can I park that bad boy in a MacPro tower or will I need to buy a low end PC just to house it? If I do need the PC is there an alternative to the overpriced Windows bloatware that will play nice with an internal LTO drive?

Also wondering what the Quantum units have going for them that make them so much more expensive than the HP drives that started this thread?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Can't put these LTO drives into a Mac Pro tower. The slot openings on the front of the system are only good for CD trays.

The best connectivity options on the Mac for tape drives right now appear to be SCSI and Fiber Channel. SAS is the ideal connectivity solution, especially for LTO-4, but it seems most drive and software makers are not extending tape drive support over SAS to the Mac very well (or at all). Fiber Channel is nice, but expensive and SCSI is basically a dead-end tech.

I'm waiting until I check out a few things at NAB before I buy into my new backup solution. Right now my two top choices are:

1> Roll my own -- small form factor PC, internal LTO-3 (maybe LTO-4) and competent RAID. I back-up to the system, then have it write my tape.

2> Quantum LTO-3 600A that connects via Gigabit Ethernet and has file-level access via FTP and web interfaces along with other web-based utilities built in.

Both solutions work out about the same price, the 600A is going to be a lot easier to deploy and quicker to just get up and running. Neither solution is without problems at this point.

I like the 600A, but do have a couple issues with it. One is that it is not compatible with standard LTO-3 data formats and it can not read older LTO-2 / 1 tapes. Tapes created in the 600A can not be read in a standard LTO-3 drive. There is talk that Quantum is going to have software to allow the 600A drive to read standard LTO-3 tapes and vice versa. If that happens within the next month, I'll probably buy the 600A.

If you want to avoid Windows, go Linux. Lots of backup software available for Linux, like AMANDA. Most of the freeware available on Linux (and to some extent on Windows) is better than most of the commercial backup tools on the Mac. Mac backup software options are severely lacking.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Great info Jeff. I might not have realized the format limitations of the 600A until it was too late. At one of the workshops, Gary Adcock (NAB Tech Chair) advised us to visit the Quantum booth as there would be new products worth seeing.

The 4K Ninjas booth (SL8712) is pretty close to Quantum's so stop by and I'll cruise over there with you. We can report the results of our physical examination on RedUser.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Great info Jeff. I might not have realized the format limitations of the 600A until it was too late. At one of the workshops, Gary Adcock (NAB Tech Chair) advised us to visit the Quantum booth as there would be new products worth seeing.

Yeah, I'm hoping for some new products. I want to see a revised version of the LTO-3A drive that can also read/write standard LTO-3 format as well as the proprietary "A" format. It would be a double bonus if they would offer the 3A drive as well as some other LTO-3/4 drives with SATA interfaces too. No reason not to offer SATA.

The 4K Ninjas booth (SL8712) is pretty close to Quantum's so stop by and I'll cruise over there with you. We can report the results of our physical examination on RedUser.

I'll stop by for sure. You may beat me to the Quantum booth though... I won't get to the exhibition floor until tuesday morning sometime. So I'll be missing the 9AM madness tomorrow morning at the RED tent. Oh, well...

[Jack James]

I do a lot of stuff with LTO3. In practice it takes roughly 7 hours to back up 1TB (roughly 60 minutes of 2k DPX files) including the time taken to swap the tapes. If I enable compression then I get 450-500 GB per tape. Note that you have to double this for a verification pass, and also factor in time for checking for problems.
These stats are for using an external scsi/320 drive to backup data off a firewire 800 disk, which is usually as fast as it ever gets for what I do, with HP's backup software. If you want to retain compatibility then you'll need to use ntbackup, which takes roughly twice as long again.